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Author Topic: Pope Pius XII  (Read 6859 times)

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Offline Banezian

Re: Pope Pius XII
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 06:18:03 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on June 04, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Yes they are. You can't pick and choose your Saints. If the Church makes someone a Saint then they're a Saint and we know for certain they're in Heaven.

The 1967 New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The dogma that saints are to be venerated and invoked as set forth in the profession of faith of Trent (cf. Denz. 1867) has as its correlative the power to canonize. ... "

St. Thomas Aquinas:, 'Honor we show the saints is a certain profession of faith by which we believe in their glory, and it is to be piously believed that even in this the judgment of the Church is not able to err' (Quodl. 9:8:16).
The question is whether the person in question is a saint to begin with. After Vatican 2, the standard for canonization was lowered to almost nothing. That makes modern canonizations very questionable 
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Offline Hermenegild

Re: Pope Pius XII
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 08:23:22 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 04, 2018, 01:37:19 PM
Are you kidding?

He appointed the vast majority of the modernist bishops who later brought us Vatican II.  He opened the door for evolution.  He opened the door for Catholic birth control.  He allowed the attack on the EENS dogma.  He launched the illustrious career of one Annibale Bugnini and empowered him to mess around with the liturgy.  If there's any Pope who was THE watershed into Vatican II, it was Pius XII.  Pius XII was one of the weakest popes in the history of popes.

Wasn't he also Hitler's Pope?
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Offline Cantarella

Re: Pope Pius XII
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 09:16:02 PM »
Quote from: Banezian on June 04, 2018, 05:59:34 PM
No they aren't ( especially when the standards have been wittled  down to almost nothin )

If canonizations are not infallible, then how could we ever have the certainty that great saints such as St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas for instance, are indeed in Heaven, and can be venerated; instead of being damned in Hell?

I wanted to think once that canonizations were not infallible; but now it seems to me that if the Church can err in such an important matter such as the canonizations of saints; then that means that the Church can defect in one of her most important missions.

From the Council of Trent:

Quote
The holy Synod enjoins on all bishops, and others who sustain the office and charge of teaching, that, agreeably to the usage of the Catholic and Apostolic Church, received from the primitive times of the Christian religion, and agreeably to the consent of the holy Fathers, and to the decrees of sacred Councils, they especially instruct the faithful diligently concerning the intercession and invocation of saints; the honour (paid) to relics; and the legitimate use of images: teaching them, that the saints, who reign together with Christ, offer up their own prayers to God for men; that it is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, (and) help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who is our alone Redeemer and Saviour; but that they think impiously, who deny that the saints, who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven, are to be invocated; or who assert either that they do not pray for men; or, that the invocation of them to pray for each of us even in particular, is idolatry; or, that it is repugnant to the word of God; and is opposed to the honour of the one mediator of God and men, Christ Jesus; or, that it is foolish to supplicate, vocally, or mentally, those who reign in heaven.

Could you imagine if you were to invoke a saint to pray for your intentions, thinking the soul is for sure in Heaven because the Church has declared it so, when in reality he or she is in in fact in Hell?

It is a very serious matter.

I can see beatifications as being fallible. But not canonizations.
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Offline Cantarella

Re: Pope Pius XII
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 09:30:37 PM »
Quote from: Banezian on June 04, 2018, 06:18:03 PM
The question is whether the person in question is a saint to begin with. After Vatican 2, the standard for canonization was lowered to almost nothing. That makes modern canonizations very questionable

It is not the procedure which make the canonizations infallible; but once again, it is the pope’s approval of the universal Church’s veneration of a saint, whether formal or informal, that is protected from error by the Holy Ghost.

Therefore, if "pope Francis" is indeed pope, then we have no choice but believing that John XXIII and John Paul II are indeed reigning in Heaven with Christ. We are not obliged to pray to them specifically; but at the very least, we must believe that they do "reign with Christ" in Heaven. Same with Mother Theresa Calcutta, the native St. Kateri Tekakwitha, St. Martin de Porres, or the other hundreds and hundreds of new-saints canonized by the communist, miserabilist church, in recent decades.

JPII alone canonized more than 400 people.

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Offline roscoe

Re: Pope Pius XII
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 12:16:02 AM »
edit :fryingpan:
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