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Author Topic: Pope Pius XII  (Read 2800 times)

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Offline Banezian

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Re: Pope Pius XII
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 06:18:03 PM »
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  • Yes they are. You can't pick and choose your Saints. If the Church makes someone a Saint then they're a Saint and we know for certain they're in Heaven.

    The 1967 New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The dogma that saints are to be venerated and invoked as set forth in the profession of faith of Trent (cf. Denz. 1867) has as its correlative the power to canonize. ... "

    St. Thomas Aquinas:, 'Honor we show the saints is a certain profession of faith by which we believe in their glory, and it is to be piously believed that even in this the judgment of the Church is not able to err' (Quodl. 9:8:16).
    The question is whether the person in question is a saint to begin with. After Vatican 2, the standard for canonization was lowered to almost nothing. That makes modern canonizations very questionable 
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Hermenegild

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 08:23:22 PM »
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  • Are you kidding?

    He appointed the vast majority of the modernist bishops who later brought us Vatican II.  He opened the door for evolution.  He opened the door for Catholic birth control.  He allowed the attack on the EENS dogma.  He launched the illustrious career of one Annibale Bugnini and empowered him to mess around with the liturgy.  If there's any Pope who was THE watershed into Vatican II, it was Pius XII.  Pius XII was one of the weakest popes in the history of popes.

    Wasn't he also Hitler's Pope?


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 09:16:02 PM »
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  • No they aren't ( especially when the standards have been wittled  down to almost nothin )

    If canonizations are not infallible, then how could we ever have the certainty that great saints such as St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas for instance, are indeed in Heaven, and can be venerated; instead of being damned in Hell?

    I wanted to think once that canonizations were not infallible; but now it seems to me that if the Church can err in such an important matter such as the canonizations of saints; then that means that the Church can defect in one of her most important missions.

    From the Council of Trent:

    Quote
    The holy Synod enjoins on all bishops, and others who sustain the office and charge of teaching, that, agreeably to the usage of the Catholic and Apostolic Church, received from the primitive times of the Christian religion, and agreeably to the consent of the holy Fathers, and to the decrees of sacred Councils, they especially instruct the faithful diligently concerning the intercession and invocation of saints; the honour (paid) to relics; and the legitimate use of images: teaching them, that the saints, who reign together with Christ, offer up their own prayers to God for men; that it is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, (and) help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who is our alone Redeemer and Saviour; but that they think impiously, who deny that the saints, who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven, are to be invocated; or who assert either that they do not pray for men; or, that the invocation of them to pray for each of us even in particular, is idolatry; or, that it is repugnant to the word of God; and is opposed to the honour of the one mediator of God and men, Christ Jesus; or, that it is foolish to supplicate, vocally, or mentally, those who reign in heaven.

    Could you imagine if you were to invoke a saint to pray for your intentions, thinking the soul is for sure in Heaven because the Church has declared it so, when in reality he or she is in in fact in Hell?

    It is a very serious matter.

    I can see beatifications as being fallible. But not canonizations.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 09:30:37 PM »
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  • The question is whether the person in question is a saint to begin with. After Vatican 2, the standard for canonization was lowered to almost nothing. That makes modern canonizations very questionable

    It is not the procedure which make the canonizations infallible; but once again, it is the pope’s approval of the universal Church’s veneration of a saint, whether formal or informal, that is protected from error by the Holy Ghost.

    Therefore, if "pope Francis" is indeed pope, then we have no choice but believing that John XXIII and John Paul II are indeed reigning in Heaven with Christ. We are not obliged to pray to them specifically; but at the very least, we must believe that they do "reign with Christ" in Heaven. Same with Mother Theresa Calcutta, the native St. Kateri Tekakwitha, St. Martin de Porres, or the other hundreds and hundreds of new-saints canonized by the communist, miserabilist church, in recent decades.

    JPII alone canonized more than 400 people.

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 12:16:02 AM »
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  • edit :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline AJNC

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 10:11:19 AM »
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  • Anyone else wondering why this great pope is not a saint?

    I remember reading a story that padre pio was celebrating mass one day and saw him in heaven - how beautiful

    Please join me in a novena for him to be recognised by the church as a saint

    O Venerable Pope Pius XII, who had on earth great courage to preach the word of God, vigor to repel the enemies of the Church, and zeal for the Holy Name, pray for us poor sinners. May we, O Pius, have a double portion of thy righteous qualities in defense of our holy Church. May we never abandon our duty to defend the faith, with fortitude, wherever we are and in whatever state God hath put us. Venerable Pius, may we, like thee, show the radiant glory of our Holy Lord in everything we do and say. And this, through the graciousness of the Divine Majesty, to Whom we humbly ask thee to pray for our benefit and protection.
    Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Please take a look at this Hutton Gibson article where he answers a post in Traditio and then goes on to make comments of his own concerning Pius XII:
    http://www.huttongibson.com/index-detail.php?Novus-Ordo-from-Pius-XII-69

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 03:23:05 PM »
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  • The question is whether the person in question is a saint to begin with. After Vatican 2, the standard for canonization was lowered to almost nothing. That makes modern canonizations very questionable
    Again, if the Pope is valid then the canonisation is. Otherwise people could pick and choose their Popes. That is nonsense. If the Vatican 2 Popes are indeed valid Popes, then you must accept John Paul II, John XXIII and perhaps soon Paul VI as Saints. 

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 04:59:51 PM »
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  • Pope Pius the XII was also known as the Fatima Pope.  Given 2 chances to consecrate Russia.  Sister Lucia was told by Our Lady, "The Pope did not do the consecration, only in half measure.  


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #23 on: June 14, 2018, 03:35:56 PM »
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  • What is obvious to me is that the Catholic Church has left many of us UTTERLY CONFUSED as to what is Catholic anymore. Personally I have no time for Pius XII, the BIG BANG pope who would not rule out Adam as an evolved monkey, or any of the Vatican II popes. If they are saints, good for them, but I thought Catholics were supposed to look upon saints as examples of Catholic living and thinking. I have nothing but contempt for them as I lived through their time as popes and saw the Catholic Church lose all credibility in the world and saw millions of souls leave the Church for many reasons.

    'BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM' said the Lord.

    One fruit is this thread wherein we Catholics are supposed to accept as saints men we have no respect for. They could well be in heaven, whereas millions of souls in their care are not. Catholicism today is nothing but CONFUSION, not knowing what we are to believe, accept or reject. 

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 04:56:28 PM »
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  • Why is Leo XIII not a saint?

    In part, due to the Pope's selection of this ʝʊdɛօ-masonic papal secretary of state.


     Cardinal Mariano Rampolla Del Tindaro

     You might want to read-up on it :farmer:


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #25 on: June 16, 2018, 05:19:24 AM »
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  • In part, due to the Pope's selection of this ʝʊdɛօ-masonic papal secretary of state.


    Cardinal Mariano Rampolla Del Tindaro

    You might want to read-up on it :farmer:

    Yes, but today that would qualify one's sainthood, wouldn't it?

    For me it was Leo's 1893 encyclical Providentissimus Deus that eliminated him from sainthood, probably written by Rampolla. In it he says:

    ‘15: But [the interpreter] must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push enquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St Augustine – not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires, a rule to which it is more necessary to adhere strictly in these times, when the thirst for novelty and unrestrained freedom of thought make the danger of error most real and proximate.’ Neither should those passages be neglected which the Fathers have understood in an allegorical or figurative sense.’

    In other words 'science' will determine what the Bible says. This is as a direct result of the Galilean reformation where a false science led to the elimination of the doctrine of geocentrism and the FALSE MODERNISING OF THE BIBLE and the Catholic faith.



    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #26 on: June 16, 2018, 10:36:58 AM »
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  • In part, due to the Pope's selection of this ʝʊdɛօ-masonic papal secretary of state.


    Cardinal Mariano Rampolla Del Tindaro

    You might want to read-up on it :farmer:
    You are full of Shinola... :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #27 on: June 16, 2018, 11:44:52 AM »
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  • Yes, but today that would qualify one's sainthood, wouldn't it?

    For me it was Leo's 1893 encyclical Providentissimus Deus that eliminated him from sainthood, probably written by Rampolla. In it he says:

    ‘15: But [the interpreter] must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push enquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St Augustine – not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires, a rule to which it is more necessary to adhere strictly in these times, when the thirst for novelty and unrestrained freedom of thought make the danger of error most real and proximate.’ Neither should those passages be neglected which the Fathers have understood in an allegorical or figurative sense.’

    In other words 'science' will determine what the Bible says. This is as a direct result of the Galilean reformation where a false science led to the elimination of the doctrine of geocentrism and the FALSE MODERNISING OF THE BIBLE and the Catholic faith.

    Someday, the historical detective work will be done exposing all the "things" Rampolla did.

    I'm sure he got away with many clandestine things.
    I don't have the source, but heard he had trashed historical items on the Jєωs held in the Vatican archives.

    Hopefully one day, the records from his grand lodge meetings will surface and we will see him without his Roman mask.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #28 on: June 16, 2018, 11:55:42 AM »
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  • You are full of Shinola... :fryingpan:

    Roscoe,

    "Shinola"... is that Italian?  :-\

    Who are you defending?  Pope Leo XIII, Card Rampolla or both?

    Please, speakest thou to us?

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Pius XII
    « Reply #29 on: June 16, 2018, 12:06:22 PM »
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  • The question is whether the person in question is a saint to begin with. After Vatican 2, the standard for canonization was lowered to almost nothing. That makes modern canonizations very questionable

    Nonsense.  There's no requirement in terms of "standards" for the protection of the Holy Spirit.  Did you investigate whether Pius XII did adequate research before defining the dogma of the Assumption?