Author Topic: Pope Pius Paul the Eleventy-Twelfth (Read 6214 times)

Trinity · « **Reply #40 on:** February 10, 2012, 04:33:27 PM »

SSPX is trying to do what cannot be done. That is to run the show while pretending that the pope does. They themselves dictate the extent of his powers, so one could say they are working their own will and pretending not to. It can't work. They can juggle those balls with their best will but sooner or later they will all come down. They will either go sede or return to Rome. IMO it would be best to quit trying to proseletyze them and just let nature take it's course. It surely will. No one can serve two masters.

SJB · « **Reply #41 on:** February 10, 2012, 05:07:49 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

SSPX is trying to do what cannot be done. That is to run the show while pretending that the pope does. They themselves dictate the extent of his powers, so one could say they are working their own will and pretending not to. It can't work. They can juggle those balls with their best will but sooner or later they will all come down. They will either go sede or return to Rome. IMO it would be best to quit trying to proseletyze them and just let nature take it's course. It surely will. No one can serve two masters.

Except the SSPX do have a successful apostolate showing good fruits. Those who formerly held the same position have only division. Maybe resisting the changes is the most important thing for a Catholic to do, and many of other issues are really secondary and subject to charitable disagreement.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #42 on:** February 10, 2012, 05:09:01 PM »

Quote from: Retablo

"Pope Pius IX rejected the idea that the Pope and the Bishops, united in Eucuмenical Council, could fall into error."

So a dilemma would be presented, then, if it could be demonstrated that Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI were true popes. Some would say that the Second Vatican Council--a Council that has been described as "pastoral" in nature by those who convoked it--imposes nothing binding upon Catholics that was not already binding, and therefore one might legitimately ignore it as something non-essential.

So, once all the clerics of Rome who could validly elect a pope are, in fact, dead, what becomes the next viable means through which to supply the Diocese of Rome with a bishop and the universal Church with a chief shepherd? And how long can the Church go without a pope, in any case? According to most Sedevacantists, the Church has been without a shepherd for 54 years. How long before Heaven must intervene? Is there an expiration date on a vacant Chair of Peter?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that in today’s world during this Great Apostasy, or Great Schism we are presently living, the Church is suffering as Christ suffered on earth. In all things we suffer but are not distressed. It would be very prideful for a sedevacantist to believe they are going to save the Church. It doesn’t need saving, we are, like Christ was, hanging on the Cross today, with only a few at His feet. The majority as when He said, “It is finished” are gambling for His robe.

We sedevacantist KNOW that He like His Church will rise again, proving once again that He is God.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #43 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:31:30 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

SSPX is trying to do what cannot be done. That is to run the show while pretending that the pope does. They themselves dictate the extent of his powers, so one could say they are working their own will and pretending not to. It can't work. They can juggle those balls with their best will but sooner or later they will all come down. They will either go sede or return to Rome. IMO it would be best to quit trying to proseletyze them and just let nature take it's course. It surely will. No one can serve two masters.

Well, SJB is right that the Society has a successful apostolate displaying good fruits... only not as much today as it did in the past. Bishop Fellay is close to turning the SSPX into a group that "buddies" with modernist Rome, that is friendly towards the Jews, and that totally shuns sedevacantism. Archbishop LeFebvre would never have allowed those things to happen. And yet Bishop Williamson gets kicked out for upholding the Archbishop's views? It's disgusting.

Of course, I'm not going to say the Society has lost all of its good fuits. In spite of the changes, they still celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass exclusively, introduce people to Tradition, and have some good priests. This can really be said of all Traditional groups, some more than others of course. I still like the SSPX and would attend one of their Masses in an instant if I could, I just think they need to get back to the Archbishop's mission. Not try to "reconcile" with a bunch of heretical usurpers.

Trinity · « **Reply #44 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:25:55 AM »

That's my point, SS. They can't support these oxymorons forever. It's a wonder they've managed this long. When the day comes that they have fallen to one side or the other of that fence they will be sede or apostate Rome. Bp Williamson says he prefers sede, while Bp. Fellay keeps inching toward Rome. They are good Catholics trying to do the impossible. I would never say otherwise, so I would expect good fruits. But to try to be a Catholic with a Modernist head? Impossible! To be obedient and disobedient? Sooner or later you are going to be more of one than the other and that will be the day when SSPX is finished. One had to admire the attempt but recognize the futility, after all, many of us didn't even try.