Author Topic: Pope Pius IX - Mason (Read 29234 times)

Belloc · « **Reply #105 on:** August 13, 2010, 01:41:37 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: Matto
SS, CM is not wrong for calling evil men sons of Satan. That is not heretical. He got that from Christ himself. See John 8:44. As the just are sons and heirs of God, evil men are sons of the devil.

What I'm talking about is CM stating that children are sons of Satan from the moment they are born until they are Baptized. You must admit, that is pretty ridiculous.

actually, it fits into his Calvinistic-like world view, noted copiously in prior posts when he was before an active member...same Schisen(?), different day...

Belloc · « **Reply #106 on:** August 13, 2010, 01:42:45 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
What I'm talking about is CM stating that children are sons of Satan from the moment they are born until they are Baptized. You must admit, that is pretty ridiculous.

Where would those children go if they died before baptism? Would they go to be with God? Or would they go to be with the Devil?

Neither, ever hear of a palce called Limbo, it is nto the pains/flames of Hell and is not the Heavenly Paradise of Heaven.....set, match....... :applause:

Matto · « **Reply #107 on:** August 13, 2010, 01:49:10 PM »

I thought that according to the Church, Limbo was a part of Hell, as it is the Divine Comedy, and not a middle place, or part of Heaven. I always thought that Limbo was the least bad part of Hell. I thought that the Church has declared infallibly that the unbaptized infants are damned and do not go to a middle place, and therefore Limbo must be a part of Hell.

Cheryl · « **Reply #108 on:** August 13, 2010, 02:27:15 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I thought that according to the Church, Limbo was a part of Hell, as it is the Divine Comedy, and not a middle place, or part of Heaven. I always thought that Limbo was the least bad part of Hell. I thought that the Church has declared infallibly that the unbaptized infants are damned and do not go to a middle place, and therefore Limbo must be a part of Hell.

Where will unbaptized children (and aborted babies) go on the day of the Last Judgment?

It is not a doctrine of Faith that children dying with original sin only on their soul go to a special place or state called the children’s Limbo. However, it is the common opinion of the theologians. This is based upon the teaching of Pope Innocent III (and the Fathers of the Church) on the effects of baptism, in which he has this to say:

The punishment of original sin is deprivation of the vision of God, but the punishment of actual sin is the torments of everlasting hell. (Maiores Ecclesiae causas, Dz 780).

The state of Limbo is consequently a suffering from the pain of loss, or separation from God, but not of the pain of the senses. As St. Thomas Aquinas teaches (De malo 5, 3), such a pain of loss is compatible with a certain natural happiness. At the last judgment, when the bodies will rise to share in the punishment or reward of heaven or hell, the bodies of those who are in Limbo will also rise. Although separated from God, in which way they share the punishment of the damned in hell, they will not be tormented by remorse nor will they suffer the pain of the sense which the damned suffer forever in hell.

The denial of this common teaching by the heretical council of Pistoia was condemned by Pope Pius VI as "false, rash, injurious to Catholic schools." Here is his description of the erroneous doctrine:

The doctrine which rejects as a Pelagian fable that place of the lower regions (which the faithful generally designate by the name of the limbo of children) in which the souls of those departing with the sole guilt of original sin, are punished with the punishment of the condemned, exclusive of the punishment of fire... (Auctorem Fidei, Dz 1526). [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]
http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__theological.htm

CM · « **Reply #109 on:** August 13, 2010, 03:39:52 PM »

Quote from: Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 6, [i

ex cathedra[/i]]But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.

And people here are calling me heretical?

As for Pope Pius VI, he did not call the rejection of Limbo heretical though. Nevertheless I do believe in Limbo, the least part of hell, but that the fire there is mildest. This position has been shared by saints and doctors also.

And of course, an unbaptized infant is living outside the Church, undeniably. Enter Pope Eugene once more:

Quote from: Session 11 of the Council of Florence, [i

ex cathedra[/i]]It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels

This is Catholicism folks, out of the mouth of the pope. Don't believe me? Go look it up.

Oh yeah, one last thing - unbaptized infants, who do they belong to, God or the devil, and are they truly innocent (I can't believe I'm having this discussion - ever heard of the Council of Trent's Decree on Original Sin)?

Quote from: Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, [i

ex cathedra[/i]]With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred ...

So don't argue with me. Argue with the pope (and good luck with that).

TheD · « **Reply #110 on:** August 14, 2010, 11:35:21 AM »

Quote from: Cheryl

Quote from: Matto
I thought that according to the Church, Limbo was a part of Hell, as it is the Divine Comedy, and not a middle place, or part of Heaven. I always thought that Limbo was the least bad part of Hell. I thought that the Church has declared infallibly that the unbaptized infants are damned and do not go to a middle place, and therefore Limbo must be a part of Hell.

Where will unbaptized children (and aborted babies) go on the day of the Last Judgment?

It is not a doctrine of Faith that children dying with original sin only on their soul go to a special place or state called the children’s Limbo. However, it is the common opinion of the theologians. This is based upon the teaching of Pope Innocent III (and the Fathers of the Church) on the effects of baptism, in which he has this to say:

The punishment of original sin is deprivation of the vision of God, but the punishment of actual sin is the torments of everlasting hell. (Maiores Ecclesiae causas, Dz 780).

The state of Limbo is consequently a suffering from the pain of loss, or separation from God, but not of the pain of the senses. As St. Thomas Aquinas teaches (De malo 5, 3), such a pain of loss is compatible with a certain natural happiness. At the last judgment, when the bodies will rise to share in the punishment or reward of heaven or hell, the bodies of those who are in Limbo will also rise. Although separated from God, in which way they share the punishment of the damned in hell, they will not be tormented by remorse nor will they suffer the pain of the sense which the damned suffer forever in hell.

The denial of this common teaching by the heretical council of Pistoia was condemned by Pope Pius VI as "false, rash, injurious to Catholic schools." Here is his description of the erroneous doctrine:

The doctrine which rejects as a Pelagian fable that place of the lower regions (which the faithful generally designate by the name of the limbo of children) in which the souls of those departing with the sole guilt of original sin, are punished with the punishment of the condemned, exclusive of the punishment of fire... (Auctorem Fidei, Dz 1526). [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]
http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__theological.htm

Well Said!!!!!! :applause: :applause: :applause:

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #111 on:** August 30, 2010, 03:10:49 AM »

Quote from: Classiccom

I describe the Roman Catholic Church as being based on the rock of truth which does not change. Your church is based on Pope Pius IX.

So according to Classiccon those of us Catholics who accept Vatican I and Pope Pius IX are not members of the Roman Catholic Church but instead are in another Church that he derogatorily calls Club Infallible.

Classiccon may not be CM but he is just as dangerous and loony.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #112 on:** August 30, 2010, 03:15:40 AM »

Quote from: Classiccom

That's Pius IX's legacy - people completely detached from reality that will buy anything. (Assisi 1986 etc.)

How dare you blame the modern apostasy on Pope Pius IX!

Classiccom · « **Reply #113 on:** September 01, 2010, 08:31:32 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Classiccom

That's Pius IX's legacy - people completely detached from reality that will buy anything. (Assisi 1986 etc.)

How dare you blame the modern apostasy on Pope Pius IX!

=========================

Romans 3:4

But God is true; and every man a liar, as it is written, That thou mayest be justified in thy words, and mayest overcome when thou art judged.

Just Google "Pius IX Liar" and see how many called him the worst liar. In his teen years he was known as the worst liar in his school. This reminds me of today we have a pope that volunteered early participation in the nαzι Youth league.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lord Acton said this with Pope Pius IX in mind.

====================

Cardinal Gustav von Hohenlohe once told a friend: “In my entire life, I have never met a man who was less particular about the truth than Pius IX.”

=======================
The papal conquest: Italy's warning - 'Wake up, John Bull!'
By Alexander Robertson

Check out page 34 - October 1850 Count Cavour

"With us, the court of Rome has lost every sort of moral authority..

... the masses are religious, very religious, but they no longer have any faith in the pope. The conduct of Pio Nono has too deeply wounded the national sentiment for his anger to be feared "

Robertson commented that

"But long before the Church had lost her temporal power, she lost in Italy, her moral authority"

http://books.google.com/books?id=GfsOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=Pope+Gregory+XVI+warning&source=bl&ots=YYgpj3frWZ&sig=Ft0nf0FEYlVG0PA9KNmyKtJ4qcw&hl=en&ei=ZUp-TPvSJMOB8gb6x6HTAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rip Van Winkle Catholics of Club Infallible never learn. Wait till they get done with all the sex scandal prosecutions that implicate Pope Ratzinger. Pope Pius IX's predecessor Pope Gregory warned about Mastei . He did ruin the Church.

Talk about wounding the spirit of Christians. How are Catholics going to recover when they realize they have been conned for over 140 years with Pius IX, and nearly a hundred years with this Fatima . If the Church refuses to do its job, then the Two Witnesses of the Apocalypse will be employed. Fires engulfing countries, Gulf Oil disaster, etc, etc. - Looks like God's answer to Club Infallible.

Belloc · « **Reply #114 on:** September 01, 2010, 08:54:06 AM »

Proof for your calumny, Classicom???

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #115 on:** September 01, 2010, 10:23:07 AM »

Quote from: Classiccom

Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Classiccom

That's Pius IX's legacy - people completely detached from reality that will buy anything. (Assisi 1986 etc.)

How dare you blame the modern apostasy on Pope Pius IX!

=========================

Romans 3:4

But God is true; and every man a liar, as it is written, That thou mayest be justified in thy words, and mayest overcome when thou art judged.

Just Google "Pius IX Liar" and see how many called him the worst liar. In his teen years he was known as the worst liar in his school. This reminds me of today we have a pope that volunteered early participation in the nαzι Youth league.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lord Acton said this with Pope Pius IX in mind.

====================

Cardinal Gustav von Hohenlohe once told a friend: “In my entire life, I have never met a man who was less particular about the truth than Pius IX.”

=======================
The papal conquest: Italy's warning - 'Wake up, John Bull!'
By Alexander Robertson

Check out page 34 - October 1850 Count Cavour

"With us, the court of Rome has lost every sort of moral authority..

... the masses are religious, very religious, but they no longer have any faith in the pope. The conduct of Pio Nono has too deeply wounded the national sentiment for his anger to be feared "

Robertson commented that

"But long before the Church had lost her temporal power, she lost in Italy, her moral authority"

http://books.google.com/books?id=GfsOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=Pope+Gregory+XVI+warning&source=bl&ots=YYgpj3frWZ&sig=Ft0nf0FEYlVG0PA9KNmyKtJ4qcw&hl=en&ei=ZUp-TPvSJMOB8gb6x6HTAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rip Van Winkle Catholics of Club Infallible never learn. Wait till they get done with all the sex scandal prosecutions that implicate Pope Ratzinger. Pope Pius IX's predecessor Pope Gregory warned about Mastei . He did ruin the Church.

Talk about wounding the spirit of Christians. How are Catholics going to recover when they realize they have been conned for over 140 years with Pius IX, and nearly a hundred years with this Fatima . If the Church refuses to do its job, then the Two Witnesses of the Apocalypse will be employed. Fires engulfing countries, Gulf Oil disaster, etc, etc. - Looks like God's answer to Club Infallible.

Pius IX isn't the liar. I think you're the liar.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #116 on:** September 01, 2010, 11:01:48 AM »

Spiritus Sanctus,

Quote

Um, didn't God create Mary to be free of sin, therefore creating her?

Mary is "one of a kind." You want to counter CM's argument as to the generation of the mass of humanity post fall by using the example of someone who is "one of a kind" and therefore not applicable to the rest of us outside her class?

I know CM's been banned, so let me say on his behalf that I've seen nothing here to counter his citation of infallible authority from the Council of Florence. Rather, we see the same kind of "gut reaction" and sentimentality, the kind of "thinking" that brought us V2 and the NO.

We pray for the souls of infants who have died without baptism and offer them up to God. But do not let your sentiment invade dogma and doctrine . . . again, that's taking the path which lead us to V2 and the NO.

The hard truth that God chooses those He wishes to save, and that those so chosen are loved more by God - the principle of predilection - the evasion of this TRUTH causes more and more problems.

We are owed nothing, not a single one of us. We all deserve Hell. God recreates the Elect with the Precious Blood of His Son, the Holy Ghost, and the mysterious involvement of Our Lady as Mother of the Elect.

We should all humbly thank God for moving us to desire Him as our chief passion and love of life, and get on our knees in thanks for His Mercy. There is no salvation for infants apart from baptism - there is no other remedy. That is infallible. Let us pray that His Will be done as to those unbaptized, knowing that He is merciful and just, and that whatever he does with them is merciful and just. As Pius IX (himself) said about speculating regarding the doctrine of No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church, note that their is no such salvation outside, and then simply shut up.

Or better yet, pray.

DR

Belloc · « **Reply #117 on:** September 01, 2010, 11:19:28 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: Classiccom
Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Classiccom

That's Pius IX's legacy - people completely detached from reality that will buy anything. (Assisi 1986 etc.)

How dare you blame the modern apostasy on Pope Pius IX!

=========================

Romans 3:4

But God is true; and every man a liar, as it is written, That thou mayest be justified in thy words, and mayest overcome when thou art judged.

Just Google "Pius IX Liar" and see how many called him the worst liar. In his teen years he was known as the worst liar in his school. This reminds me of today we have a pope that volunteered early participation in the nαzι Youth league.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lord Acton said this with Pope Pius IX in mind.

====================

Cardinal Gustav von Hohenlohe once told a friend: “In my entire life, I have never met a man who was less particular about the truth than Pius IX.”

=======================
The papal conquest: Italy's warning - 'Wake up, John Bull!'
By Alexander Robertson

Check out page 34 - October 1850 Count Cavour

"With us, the court of Rome has lost every sort of moral authority..

... the masses are religious, very religious, but they no longer have any faith in the pope. The conduct of Pio Nono has too deeply wounded the national sentiment for his anger to be feared "

Robertson commented that

"But long before the Church had lost her temporal power, she lost in Italy, her moral authority"

http://books.google.com/books?id=GfsOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=Pope+Gregory+XVI+warning&source=bl&ots=YYgpj3frWZ&sig=Ft0nf0FEYlVG0PA9KNmyKtJ4qcw&hl=en&ei=ZUp-TPvSJMOB8gb6x6HTAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rip Van Winkle Catholics of Club Infallible never learn. Wait till they get done with all the sex scandal prosecutions that implicate Pope Ratzinger. Pope Pius IX's predecessor Pope Gregory warned about Mastei . He did ruin the Church.

Talk about wounding the spirit of Christians. How are Catholics going to recover when they realize they have been conned for over 140 years with Pius IX, and nearly a hundred years with this Fatima . If the Church refuses to do its job, then the Two Witnesses of the Apocalypse will be employed. Fires engulfing countries, Gulf Oil disaster, etc, etc. - Looks like God's answer to Club Infallible.

Pius IX isn't the liar. I think you're the liar.

he quotes Cavour as a source, why thats proof positive then :roll-laugh1:

Belloc · « **Reply #118 on:** September 01, 2010, 11:21:10 AM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
What I'm talking about is CM stating that children are sons of Satan from the moment they are born until they are Baptized. You must admit, that is pretty ridiculous.

Where would those children go if they died before baptism? Would they go to be with God? Or would they go to be with the Devil?

neither, CM did not accept limbo, he was a "brun, suffering miserably in hell" kinda a guy..though infants have never used-nor misused-free will and no actual sins comitted, he was "too bad, so sad", why I used to call him a functional Calvinist,etc....

unbaptized infant dies=limbo, not hell, not heaven, not Disneyland....

Classiccom · « **Reply #119 on:** September 01, 2010, 05:41:37 PM »

Belloc

he quotes Cavour as a source, why thats proof positive then :roll-laugh1:[/quote] :roll-laugh1:

===================

I guess Count Cavour's opinion doesn't count. :dancing-banana:

=======================

1965 Music Break -( Dawn of Vatican II )

Gary Lewis & The Playboys - Count Me In (1965)

===================

1870 Music Break ( Dawn of Vatican I)

Tchaikovsky Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture (1)

1870 in music

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1870_in_music

Events

* January 6 - The Musikverein opens in Vienna.
* March 16 - Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky's fantasy-overture Romeo and Juliet debuts in Moscow, conducted by Nikolai Rubenstein
* May 25 - Léo Delibes' ballet Coppélia debuts at the Paris Opéra
* June 26 - Richard Wagner's Die Walküre premieres at the Munich Court Theatre

Published popular music

* "Come In Old Adam, Come In!" by Alice Cary & C. F. Shattuck
* "Just Touch the Harp Gently, My Pretty Louise" by Sam Mitchell & Charles Blamphin

Classical music

* Max Bruch - Symphony No. 2 in F minor, op. 36 (premiered September 4)[1]
* Antonín Dvořák - Dramatic Overture (overture to the opera Alfred) (B. 16a); String Quartet no. 3 in D, B. 18; String Quartet no. 4 in E minor, B. 19 (see List of compositions by Antonín Dvořák)
* Charles Gounod - Messe des Orphéonistes
* Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - Romeo and Juliet overture (first version)

Opera

* Antonín Dvořák
o Alfred, B. 16 (libretto by Karl Theodor Körner, premiered in 1938 in Olomouc)[2]
* Karel Miry
o La Saint-Lucas (opera in 1 act, libretto by J. Story, premiered on February 17 in Ghent)
o Het Driekoningenfeest (opera in 1 act, libretto by P. Geiregat, premiered in Brussels)
* Emile Pessard - La cruche cassée (comic opera in 1 act, libretto by Hyppolite Lucas and Emile Abraham, premiered on February 21 at the Théâtre de l'Opéra-Comique in Paris)
* Bedřich Smetana - Prodana Nevesta (eng. The Bartered Bride)
* Richard Wagner - Die Walküre