Author Topic: Pope Francis Says Christians Do Not Exist Outside The Roman Catholic Church (Read 3418 times)

2Vermont · « **Reply #30 on:** May 20, 2014, 06:38:45 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Ladislaus
I always found the term "New Evangelization" to be mysterious. When I dug into the concept (as it appears in JP2), it refers to evangelizing people in a way that does not involve conversion to Catholicism.

Michael Voris actually has a video out recently in which he says that the "New Evangelization" was intended by Wojtyla to be a call to evangelize fallen away Catholics and bring them back to the Church.

Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, even if he doesn't realize it. The New Evangelization was about evangelizing people who have the Catholic Faith and bring them to the Conciliar religion, which, as you note above, does not necessarily involve conversion to Catholicism.

Very good TKGS. I never thought of it like that.

soulguard · « **Reply #31 on:** May 21, 2014, 02:51:34 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Pope Francis Says Christians Do Not Exist Outside The Roman Catholic Church

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=21558

In the midst of general confusion, what is one to think about this?

Is it a deliberate attempt to further confuse people? throw the occasional bone at conservatives? the result of more ambiguity? a genuine advance in the right direction of EENS?

In any case, Protestants are not happy about this one.

Thoughts?

If he said this, then it is a step on the road to declaring the SSPX schismatic and not Christian, perhaps to force them to integrate into the faithless ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ infested hierarchy of the vatican.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #32 on:** May 21, 2014, 03:44:12 PM »

Quote from: soulguard

Quote from: Cantarella
Pope Francis Says Christians Do Not Exist Outside The Roman Catholic Church

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=21558

In the midst of general confusion, what is one to think about this?

Is it a deliberate attempt to further confuse people? throw the occasional bone at conservatives? the result of more ambiguity? a genuine advance in the right direction of EENS?

In any case, Protestants are not happy about this one.

Thoughts?

If he said this, then it is a step on the road to declaring the SSPX schismatic and not Christian, perhaps to force them to integrate into the faithless ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ infested hierarchy of the vatican.

I think Francis would like to officially declare the SSPX as schismatic while still embracing protestants as "brothers in Christ".

Then again, we may be reading too much into some crackpot protestant website ran by lunatics.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #33 on:** May 21, 2014, 04:20:31 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: TKGS
InfiniteFaith,

Baptism does incorporate a person into the Catholic Church provided the true form is used, ordinary water is used, and the person baptizing has the intention of doing as the Church does, i.e., wash away original sin.

Do Protestants have valid baptism? Many do.

Are those who are validly baptized members of the Church? They are until or unless the specifically and consciously reject the True Faith. For a time, a baptized Protestant may be invincibly ignorant of the Faith. When, precisely, they become culpable of the sin against the faith and against charity (i.e., become formally schismatic) is known to God, though we are to regard them as not members of the Church at any time because they do not clearly indicate their desire to be Catholics. This is also explains why the person baptized in the Novus Ordo may be regarded as Catholic even while, for a time, professing heresies that he thinks in ignorance to be the teaching of the Catholic Church.

But Saint Paul warns us that "them that are without, God will judge." (1 Cor. 5:13). We should not be eager to condemn them to hell, but we should, indeed, encourage them to find the True Faith in order to be sure that it is possible that their sins will not condemn them.

The problem with this topic is that the opening post manifestly claims that Bergoglio said something that he did not. We must remember that the Vatican II church does not believe that the "Church" is the Roman Catholic Church, for the Church of Christ merely "subsists" in the Catholic Church. For Bergoglio, "the Church" is much bigger than the Catholic Church.

Remember though that the protestant must meet all of the requirements of mortal sin to be fully culpable. So if he/she rejected the True Faith but did not meet all of the requirements then they would be beaten lightly (in purgatory).

I think that rejecting the True Faith is a mortal sin. The operational word is "rejected" and not "was unaware of".

ThomisticPhilosopher · « **Reply #34 on:** May 22, 2014, 11:35:37 PM »

I would love to baptize big green men :roll-laugh2:.

On a more serious note, I tend to agree with what he said if it is understood in its plain and literal sense, what was heretical of what he wrote. Maybe I am missing something?