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Author Topic: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback  (Read 5730 times)

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Offline ThatBritPapist

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Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
« on: March 14, 2024, 03:27:28 AM »
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    • Correct if I’m wrong CI,
    This is the only  picture of Pope Francis wearing a Traditional Catholic vestment.
    The context is this is prior to the 2013 conclave and he was a visiting bishop for Basilica of San Lorenzo. He didn’t choose the fiddle back (no surprises) rather the resident Sacristan did.
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    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2024, 06:21:45 AM »
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    • Those are not Traditional vestments, merely a quasi-Roman-style (what-used-to-be-called) chasuble.  And this one almost looks half Gothic in how it flares out.  No amice, stole, maniple, etc.

    Bergoglio’s version here flares out at the bottom, looking almost like a Masonic apron.

    Gothic vestments were in use prior to Vatican II as well.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2024, 06:30:54 AM »
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    • Sacred Congregation of Rites banned the Gothic in 1927 but then Pius XI was seen wearing them and the prohibition was reversed in 1957.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2024, 09:21:26 AM »
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    • The chasuble looks traditional to me. But yes, it's weird that he's only wearing an alb and the chasuble. He's actually wearing the stole too, which you can see just barely sticking out under the chasuble at the bottom. He's wearing it straight down in front, as a bishop would, so it's not visible in the hole in the center of the chasuble.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2024, 09:30:44 AM »
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    • Poor Bergoglio! It must have caused him tremendous pain to wear that thing. It's actually a beautiful vestment, though.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2024, 10:15:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on March 14, 2024, 09:30:44 AM
    Poor Bergoglio! It must have caused him tremendous pain to wear that thing. It's actually a beautiful vestment, though.

    Hmmm.  I don't like it.  But, as they say, de gustibus non disputandum.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2024, 10:22:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on March 14, 2024, 09:21:26 AM
    The chasuble looks traditional to me. But yes, it's weird that he's only wearing an alb and the chasuble.

    That's NO style for you.  They got rid of the amice and maniples.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2024, 11:21:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 14, 2024, 10:22:04 AM
    That's NO style for you.  They got rid of the amice and maniples.
    Rabbi Berg appears to be wearing an amice ... incorrectly as one sees in many contemporary church goods catalogues.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2024, 11:44:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on March 14, 2024, 11:21:05 AM
    Rabbi Berg appears to be wearing an amice ... incorrectly as one sees in many contemporary church goods catalogues.

    Hmm.  I'm not seeing it, but then my eyes aren't the greatest anymore.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2024, 12:17:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 14, 2024, 11:44:16 AM
    Hmm.  I'm not seeing it, but then my eyes aren't the greatest anymore.
    Bergoglio seems to be wearing an amice this way instead of tucking it in around the collar:

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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2024, 12:20:56 PM »
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    • How do we know it's even a real image?  
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #11 on: March 14, 2024, 02:19:43 PM »
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    • How can the above chasuble be called traditional when it only came into use in the last couple hundred years.  St Charles Borromeo set down dimensions for vestments and the above is no where close.
    At the elevation it is hardly necessary to hold up the garment when it is this short.
    An excerpt from the following site.

    " In the 16th century, Saint Charles, objecting to these extreme modifications, laid down his regulations to remind priests and vestment-makers of the importance of preserving the centuries-old Tradition. It was obviously regarded by S. Charles as most important that the chasuble continue to be a garment that fully covered the celebrant, being both long (reaching almost to the heels) and wide (51 inches, between the elbow and the wrist)."

    http://saintbedestudio.blogspot.com/2008/02/styles-and-tradition-in-chasuble-of.html

    Also, it is sad to see the cross disappear from the front along with what it symbolized.

    "A priest clad in sacred vestments, is Christ's viceregent, that he may suppliantly and humbly pray to God for himself and all the people.
    He hath before and behind him the sign of the cross of our Lord, that he may ever remember the Passion of Christ.
    Before him he beareth the cross on the chasuble, that he may diligently behold the footsteps of Christ, and fervently endeavor to follow after them.
    Behind him he is marked with the cross, that he may mildly suffer for God's sake whatsoever adversities befall him from others.
    He weareth the cross before that he may bewail his own sins: and behind that through compassion he may lament the sins of others, and know that he is placed in the midst, between God and the sinner"

                                              From the Immitation of Christ    Book 4 Chapt 5


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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #12 on: March 15, 2024, 06:19:47 AM »
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    • He looks very different in the picture.  I was trying to figure out what it was.  Glasses??? 

    Is it just me or is it interesting how he almost always wore glasses before being elected and then suddenly never seems to wear them?

    Check out the two pictures in this article.   Wow...  😅

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2293150/Pope-Francis-I-ditches-glasses-goes-church-morning-Pope.html
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #13 on: March 15, 2024, 06:35:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 14, 2024, 12:20:56 PM
    How do we know it's even a real image? 
    I just tried to do a visual search on the internet and came up with nothing.  In fact, on closer examination that background looks totally fake or from some other picture.  OP: Where did you get the image?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pope Francis Roman Fiddleback
    « Reply #14 on: March 15, 2024, 07:11:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 15, 2024, 06:35:01 AM
    I just tried to do a visual search on the internet and came up with nothing.  In fact, on closer examination that background looks totally fake or from some other picture.  OP: Where did you get the image?

    I did a Google image search and the picture came right up ... here.  Evidently from 2012 when he was still just a "Cardinal", in Rome, at St. Paul Outside the Walls.

    https://ar.pinterest.com/pin/857232110347224802/

    https://fratresinunum.com/2022/06/29/comunhao-sacrilega-e-novo-docuмento-sobre-a-liturgia-ambos-hoje-no-vaticano/

    https://www.korazym.org/76141/i-merletti-della-nonna-caminante-wanderer-miopia-intellettuale-meschinita-di-spirito-e-ignoranza-liturgica-teologica-ed-ecuмenica-triste-e-forse-terminale-intervento/

    https://blog.messainlatino.it/2022/06/il-card-bergoglio-con-pianeta-e.html
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