Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]

Author Topic: Pope Francis must be resisted.  (Read 4848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 13823
  • Reputation: +5568/-865
  • Gender: Male
Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
« Reply #105 on: December 08, 2022, 05:48:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Yeti on December 07, 2022, 08:24:10 PM
    .

    Stubborn, it is rare for me to agree with you, but thank you for saying this, and I strongly agree. The idea that the Church has lost its visibility if Bergoglio is not the pope is simply absurd. People say, "If we can't identify people who are members of the hierarchy, the Church is no longer visible." I respond, "Well, how about I stop wearing my invisibility cloak to Mass, and then you'll see someone who is a member of the Church?"

    Not to mention that the very same people who make this laughable statement also think there is no member of what they call the "hierarchy" that they would ever accept teaching from. So if they don't accept the teaching of what they think is the hierarchy, then who exactly is the hierarchy and what is its function? If it's not a problem for them not to know the answer, why is it a problem for me?

    But to go back to the main point, traditional Catholics are very much visible, and very much members of the Catholic Church.
    Well said!

    When I hear what you posted above, I think of The Prophesy of Jeremias 23:1-4 as this prophesy is surely a prophesy about these times imo.....

    [1] Woe to the pastors, that destroy and tear the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord. [2] Therefore thus saith the Lord the God of Israel to the pastors that feed my people: You have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold I will visit upon you for the evil of your doings, saith the Lord. [3] And I will gather together the remnant of my flock, out of all the lands into which I have cast them out: and I will make them return to their own fields, and they shall increase and be multiplied. [4] And I will set up pastors over them, and they shall feed them: they shall fear no more, and they shall not be dismayed: and none shall be wanting of their number, saith the Lord

    These are those days, they must be. The trad priests we have scattered about, they are the pastors that God set up to feed us. 
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline BernardoGui

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 280
    • Reputation: +235/-37
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #106 on: December 08, 2022, 07:34:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I'd like the opinions of the esteemed members of this forum as to Bergoglio's effectiveness in
    his mission to undermine/destroy Catholicism.
    It's my view that despite his near weekly pronouncements of heresy his impact is rather muted
    since both what would be considered the faithful as well as the secular world just don't take the
    man very seriously.
    First of all, the papacy has become just another mouthpiece for the globalist order that includes
    hundreds of celebrities from the entertainment world, politics, science, etc.
    Jorge, with his ambivalent word salads and not exactly magnetic personality, hardly competes
    with even Greta Thurberg or Megan Markle for the attention of the masses.
    I don't believe his pandering to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, climate change alarmism, the divorced, and trannies
    is causing a stampede back into the pews of the NO temples.
    I also get the sense that even elderly right of center NO catholics don't pay much attention to him
    as much as we do.
    I watched that laughable Netflix movie, Two Popes, which was an attempt to portray Francis as a superstar,
    and yes, he will pack stadiums on his trips abroad but I think it has less to do with him and more just
    people wanting to partake in a spectacle.
    Where Jorge is most effective is that he merges the papacy with the cacophony of voices pushing for open borders,
    the jab, and social marxism. He reinforces, if only marginally, the idea that supporting these progressive causes equates to being on the right side of history.
    The average fool therefore sees and hears a unified message from the media that the gospel according to George Soros and the WEF is a good thing to be aligned with.
    Jorge himself will be forgotten about rather quickly but his lasting damage will be his appointment of likeminded bishops and cardinals.
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #107 on: December 08, 2022, 09:43:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on December 08, 2022, 05:36:58 AM
    No, that would not be fair, the truth is the other way around, that there are many things that the sedes agree with R&R on, but it is the sedes "doctrine" that divides us on other matters because of what it is, aside from "pope not the pope."

    The visible Church is not a building(s) in Rome, and Rome is still the epicenter - which has been taken over, more accurate to say surrendered to the enemy by those charged with defending it, but nothing will change Rome from being the epicenter.

    We can never separate Christ from the Church because the two are one - this is the teaching of popes referencing and quoting the Fathers. As such, there are some things we *do not* concern ourselves with, the Church's indefectibility is one of those things along with the status of popes. Which is to say as Fr. Hesse explained in one of his talks (can't remember which), as you said above: "it's only individual churches or chapels that are visible" is pretty much the jist of what he said. If I come across it while this thread is active, I will post it.

    That's the crisis we are in, that's how it is, for now at least.

    Since we can never separate Christ from his Church, since the two are one, and since you believe that there is nothing of the Faith or church left in left in Rome (assuming this is what you believe), then you must also believe that Christ is with his church only in the individual trad chapels. 

    You say that we are not to concern ourselves with the Church's indefectibility or the status of the pope, but if you contend that there is no Faith or Church left in Rome, then it follows that you need to address indefectibility and the pope's status. In my opinion. 
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9544
    • Reputation: +6256/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #108 on: December 08, 2022, 09:47:25 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • The Church arose in the catacombs, had Christ, and the Gates of Hell had not prevailed.

    Why not now?

    After all, Jesus rhetorically asked if he would find Faith when He returns (Luke 18:8).
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #109 on: December 08, 2022, 10:21:43 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Mark 79 on December 08, 2022, 09:47:25 AM
    The Church arose in the catacombs, had Christ, and the Gates of Hell had not prevailed.

    Why not now?

    After all, Jesus rhetorically asked if he would find Faith when He returns (Luke 18:8).

    That's a good question, and I don't think I can answer it adequately. I don't know when Rome began to be considered the center of the Church; whether it was during the time of the catacombs or not. Maybe you know the answer to that. Weren't the catacombs mostly in and around Rome? I can say that for a majority of the Church's history, she has been based in Rome, and that has been a big deal since Rome became the center of the leadership of the Church.

    It might be fair to say that we are back in the times of the catacombs, given the Crisis in the Church. But one of the reasons that the designers of the New Mass wanted to go back to a simpler form of the Mass is that that's how it was in the early Church - simpler. And the Charismatics have the notion that we need in our time to go back to the practice of speaking in tongues, as was done in the early Church, though it was mainly the Apostles who did this, to spread the Faith. Both the designers of the New Mass and the Charismatics had discounted most of the Church's history, as if it didn't exist. Not that Traditionalists do this - quite the opposite - but they are discounting the importance of the location of the leadership (including the absolute need for a Pope) and center of the Church in Rome Just my opinion. 

    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13823
    • Reputation: +5568/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #110 on: December 08, 2022, 10:47:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Meg on December 08, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
    Since we can never separate Christ from his Church, since the two are one, and since you believe that there is nothing of the Faith or church left in left in Rome (assuming this is what you believe), then you must also believe that Christ is with his church only in the individual trad chapels.

    You say that we are not to concern ourselves with the Church's indefectibility or the status of the pope, but if you contend that there is no Faith or Church left in Rome, then it follows that you need to address indefectibility and the pope's status. In my opinion.
    Well, what good does it do, what does it profit us to concern ourselves with something (the status of popes and the indefectibility of the Church) we have no need to concern ourselves with - and can do nothing about?

    The Church's indefectibility has Christ's promise and should be plenty good enough for all Catholics - if they have faith that is. It is *only* when their faith is very weak or lost that one concerns themself with the indefectibility of the Church, which is Christ. 

    I just know what I posted and you know it as well, that Rome has been taken over, but that does not mean there is no faith left in Rome at all, what it means to me is woe to all those in charge. 
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #111 on: December 08, 2022, 11:23:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on December 08, 2022, 10:47:48 AM
    Well, what good does it do, what does it profit us to concern ourselves with something (the status of popes and the indefectibility of the Church) we have no need to concern ourselves with - and can do nothing about?

    The Church's indefectibility has Christ's promise and should be plenty good enough for all Catholics - if they have faith that is. It is *only* when their faith is very weak or lost that one concerns themself with the indefectibility of the Church, which is Christ. 

    I just know what I posted and you know it as well, that Rome has been taken over, but that does not mean there is no faith left in Rome at all, what it means to me is woe to all those in charge.

    Thank you for clarifying your view on the subject. Can't say that there's anything to disagree with in your above post. 
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 569
    • Reputation: +221/-133
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #112 on: December 08, 2022, 11:29:31 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on December 08, 2022, 05:06:40 AM
    We make nothing out of it. I think it's part of our nature to invent absurd hypothetical scenarios, then use those absurdities as a litmus test, but the status of the pope is of no consequence to you or to me...

    Well, it certainly sounds easy.  I'm not sure what it has to do with the teachings of Roman Catholicism but, yeah, it sounds pretty simple.  

    Happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception
    Logged

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13823
    • Reputation: +5568/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #113 on: December 08, 2022, 12:05:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on December 08, 2022, 11:29:31 AM
    Well, it certainly sounds easy.  I'm not sure what it has to do with the teachings of Roman Catholicism but, yeah, it sounds pretty simple. 

    Happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception
    It was never meant to be difficult. The teaching to go with here is "...be converted and become as little children..." no?

    And thank you - happy feast day to you as well!
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline fatimarevelation23

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 530
    • Reputation: +161/-79
    • Gender: Male
    • Rome will lose the Faith - Our Lady of La Salette
    Re: Pope Francis must be resisted.
    « Reply #114 on: December 08, 2022, 12:20:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • The biggest test for a charismatic:

    If any speak with a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and in course, and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him hold his peace in the church, and speak to himself and to God. - 1st Corinthians 14:27-28 DRB

    We have this charismatic movement in America that spread to the Catholics Post-Vatican II and has spread heresy to our Lord's Church. If someone speaks in tongues without an interpreter, they are most likely a Pentecostal fruitcake with Robert Tilton-esque tendencies that need to be put in their place and either submit to the truth of our Lord and his word or leave.

    Back in 2014, They even made Pope Francis uncomfortable:

    https://www.charismanews.com/world/44200-how-pope-francis-reacted-to-50-000-charismatics-praying-over-him-speaking-in-tongues


    Logged
    If somebody wants to shoot me from a window with a rifle, Nobody can stop it, so why worry about it? - John F. Kennedy, The Morning of November 22nd, 1963.
    Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]
    « previous next »