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Author Topic: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter  (Read 2336 times)

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Offline confederate catholic

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Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2019, 06:44:30 PM »
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  • Let me post a link to an article by an orthodox scholar, (not endorsing his views) and an EO perspective and we can go from there, it's a lot of ground to cover and I am in some college summer classes right now. Don't go back to school when you're old it's such a time waster, but work is work
    https://www.clarion-journal.com/clarion_journal_of_spirit/2014/06/the-myth-of-schism-david-bentley-hart.html?fbclid=IwAR1x9erM12F_1zRN3OZkI7wCDjlX-5KmcPZfWa9kY9u4QaDLTQEiAINx5E4
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #61 on: July 16, 2019, 03:29:47 PM »
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  • Let me post a link to an article by an orthodox scholar, (not endorsing his views) and an EO perspective and we can go from there, it's a lot of ground to cover and I am in some college summer classes right now. Don't go back to school when you're old it's such a time waster, but work is work
    https://www.clarion-journal.com/clarion_journal_of_spirit/2014/06/the-myth-of-schism-david-bentley-hart.html?fbclid=IwAR1x9erM12F_1zRN3OZkI7wCDjlX-5KmcPZfWa9kY9u4QaDLTQEiAINx5E4

    This guy spends most of the introduction assuring us that it's only "extremists" and "exaggerations" on both sides that is the cause of the real division. For the boldness of your assertions, you need to be able to articulate these issues better without the aid of a meandering non-authoritative essay.

    He mostly focuses on the Filioque and wouldn't you know it, he thinks it ought to be removed if there is going to be any kind of reunion:

    "For really it does not matter how sophisticated we become in our grasp of theological history, or how subtle in our dogmatic negotiations with the past; it is simply a fact that so long as the clause is used in any quarter of the Roman communion, there will not be reunion with the East. It has too long served as the historical symbol par excellence of what divides us, and around the ambiguity and irregularity of its insertion in the universal symbol of Catholic faith, without the assent of the Eastern churches, cluster so many of the most divisive issues of theological history, that it will remain an insurmountable obstacle to unity for not only the foreseeable, but the imaginable, future."

    So make that first item on my list, the Filioque, a major bone of contention then for all "Orthodox" as well as for Eastern Catholics such as the one you are citing. This subject requires a certain amount of precision and if you were implying that Eastern Catholic teaching is much different from the EO, your responses so far are simply not good enough to support that claim. Again, please look over that list and tell me which items are not Eastern Catholic teaching. Thank you.


    And a lot of time on their hands.    ::)

    And following up forlorn's suggestion, I found a similar pattern of having my earliest posts downvoted.
    Fortuna finem habet.


    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #62 on: July 16, 2019, 03:58:47 PM »
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  • So make that first item on my list, the Filioque, a major bone of contention then for all "Orthodox" as well as for Eastern Catholics such as the one you are citing. This subject requires a certain amount of precision and if you were implying that Eastern Catholic teaching is much different from the EO, your responses so far are simply not good enough to support that claim. Again, please look over that list and tell me which items are not Eastern Catholic teaching. Thank you.


    Yes, obviously he isn't Catholic. Though, if you could locate some authoritative EC voice to help separate what is supposedly EC fro what is EO, that would be helpful.
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #63 on: July 16, 2019, 05:50:05 PM »
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  • The Filioque isn't included in the Eastern Catholic creed, notably. Does that mean the Church allows Eastern Catholics to not believe it?

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #64 on: July 16, 2019, 07:01:15 PM »
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  • The Filioque isn't included in the Eastern Catholic creed, notably. Does that mean the Church allows Eastern Catholics to not believe it?
    I think there are some Melkites who really think of themselves as "EOs in communion with Rome" who don't believe in it, but for the most part the vibe I get is that its not that we reject the filioque, we just don't recite it in Eastern churches because its never been part of our tradition to recite it that way, obviously the creed was completely acceptable for 500+ years without the filioque, but I've never heard anyone say the west is "wrong" for including it or that the creed isn't orthodox when its recited that way.

    Occasionally I've seen someone actually say "and the Son" at that part of the creed but generally we don't.


    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #65 on: July 16, 2019, 08:16:51 PM »
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  • The filioque is not used by eastern catholics, however the council of Carthage used it and even though it is not considered an Ecumenical council the EO know there was no objection to it and the council of Florence clarified through the Son. Though foreign to eastern theology it is a perfect example of a theolegumen acceptable to the EO. They wish to agree erroneously with a 18th cent Russian cleric
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #66 on: July 16, 2019, 11:18:09 PM »
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  • Most of the 'objections' like the one I cite are pure obfuscation on the part of the EO. The eastern churches have their theology and it is not inimical to the west. Bad historical and theological opinions have no place in the church. For example any easterner to say purgatory is wrong is obvious ill will. We pray for the souls of the departed. Florence again says fire can be disputed.
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
    « Reply #67 on: July 17, 2019, 12:06:58 AM »
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  • The one I cite should read article I cite
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


     

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