Author Topic: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter (Read 4174 times)

forlorn · « **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2019, 05:32:19 PM »

Quote from: confederate catholic on July 07, 2019, 08:18:27 AM

Pointing out a historical fact is not exactly the same thing as countering your point. Unless you were unaware that a Latin Patriarch of something not Latin is an anomaly. I quite clearly stated to Byzcat the orthodox have no right to the relic, you're just being rude and uncharitable accusing me of a position I do not hold. When subjects involving the Eastern Churches come up I try to give historical fact based data since in general Latin Catholics have no idea our churches exist and thus usually have a poor understanding of not only of the theological teaching of the different eastern Catholic churches let alone the orthodox equivalent or the historical background which involves a lot of politics as well

You said earlier that the relics were not given away as they already belonged to the Orthodox, which you justified by saying St. Peter's Basilica is associated with the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Justifying the handing over of Catholic relics and falsely claiming they belonged to the Orthodox by blatantly lying about the nature of the Patriarchal Basilicas. St. Peter's was associated with the LATIN Patriarch of Constantinople, as your own quote clearly states, not the Orthodox schismatic "Patriarch". Even the Orthodox themselves quoted in the article admitted the relics never belonged to them, and yet you still falsely try to insist they did. That's what makes you look like a crypto-Orthodox, you're willing to argue more on their behalf than even they themselves are, and you happily lie to do so.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2019, 08:24:43 PM »

No I did not say that I very clearly stated to Byzcat that the giving of relics was wrong. Try reading the response again and post it with your next comment. But you're too busy finding crypto orthodox people. Nice. Is Crypto your go to when you don't read what's been cited now twice plus the post where I don't say what you claim

forlorn · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2019, 06:52:28 AM »

Quote from: confederate catholic on July 05, 2019, 10:54:08 AM

You do understand that the major churches in Rome belong to the Patriarchs right. The Popes church is the Lateran. St. Peters belongs to Constantinople, etc. You can't actually give away relics that already belong to someone else. For good or ill the mutual excommunication was lifted by Paul VI.
I never said pre VII it is Not me who wrote the idiotic claim that Francis was abandoning the Papacy because he gave a few bone fragments away ( like other Popes have done)

You clearly stated that you believed the relics already belonged to the Orthodox in this post I've quoted above. I notice you didn't deny anything I actually claimed you said, rather you put words in my mouth to avoid having to defend your own claims.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2019, 08:42:57 AM »

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        Personal Message (Online)

Re: POPE Francis Mocks Saint Peter
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2019, 01:51:57 PM »

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Byzcat they always belonged to Rome, and this is unprecedented and wrong for the Relics of Peter unify Christendom around Rome, where Peter died.
Report to moderator   68.115.204.46

Reading comprehension again is not strong with you. Rights of use does not give rights of ownership and I never said it did. The point of my post is to show that the sky is fallen 'news' article is click bait. For the Pope and the Greek Orthodox have spent YEARS praying in front of the Body of Peter and suddenly the sky is falling. Obviously the prayer in front of the relics isn't problematic for them but giving away fragments of bone that's not being venerated and LifeSite News the Jeff Rense of news needs to get involved

forlorn · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2019, 09:00:45 AM »

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St. Peters belongs to Constantinople, etc. You can't actually give away relics that already belong to someone else.

You did not say they had "right of use" over the relics. You said the relics belonged to them. You can't stop flip-flopping.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #35 on:** July 08, 2019, 01:57:25 PM »

You must be really dense. The Latin Patriarchate ended in 64, from that time until Benedict changed it the church was still the Patriarchal Basilica of Constantinople. Since the Greek Orthodox used the church in the presence of the Apostle and the Pope they through actual access to the relic which was used for prayer by them BECAUSE IT WAS UNTIL THE CHANGE BY BENEDICT THE BASILICA OF CONSTANTINOPLE. It logically follows that they have a right to the things that by tradition is part of their church. THIS DOES NOT MEAN NOR HAVE I SAID THAT THEY HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS THE OWNER WHICH IS THE CHURCH OF ROME.
A CHILD WHO HAS RIGHTS GIVEN TO HIM AND DRIVES A FAMILY CAR EVERY DAY FOR 2 YEARS AND IS THE ONLY DRIVER WHO USES IT AND HAS THE CAR IN HIS POSSESSION. IF THE FATHER HIM A SPARE TIRE FOR THE CAR. OR IF THE FATHER GIVES HIM THE TITLE OF THE CAR MOST WOULD SAY IN COMMON USAGE THAT THE FATHER GAVE HIM SOMETHING HE ALREADY HAD. I publicly stated long before your accusation that Rome has no right to give it away.

forlorn · « **Reply #36 on:** July 08, 2019, 02:00:19 PM »

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Saint Peter's with Constantinople (Latin Patriarch of Constantinople)

confederate catholic · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2019, 02:00:49 PM »

Here it is again just so you can ignore it

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Byzcat they always belonged to Rome, and this is unprecedented and wrong for the Relics of Peter unify Christendom around Rome, where Peter died.

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Byzcat they always belonged to Rome, and this is unprecedented and wrong for the Relics of Peter unify Christendom around Rome, where Peter died.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2019, 02:03:35 PM »

Whether or not you like it the Greeks are not excommunicated. The Latin Patriarch disappeared with it. Refute with facts not copying and pasting something already proven wrong

confederate catholic · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2019, 02:07:47 PM »

https://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/orthodox-divine-liturgy-celebrated-at-st-peters-in-rome/
Cue head explosion

2Vermont · « **Reply #40 on:** July 09, 2019, 06:29:25 AM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 05, 2019, 05:46:34 AM

Please give an example of a pope (obviously pre-Vat II) who gave a sacred relic to any non-Catholic.

Did you ever get an answer to this?

By the way, regarding the title of this thread: calling this man "Pope" mocks St Peter.

terminal ballistics · « **Reply #41 on:** July 09, 2019, 09:07:45 AM »

so St. Peter is no longer buried under St. Peter's Basilica?

confederate catholic · « **Reply #42 on:** July 09, 2019, 01:30:58 PM »

Yes St Peter is in Rome. Francis gave away relic pieces that are kept in the Papal apartment that he doesn't use because he is the (I'll try not to laugh too hard) "humble guy who can't live in such splendor". He just can't bear to do anything that even looks Catholic. He's too good to live like he respects the office.

Croixalist · « **Reply #43 on:** July 10, 2019, 04:12:40 AM »

Quote from: confederate catholic on July 08, 2019, 01:57:25 PM

You must be really dense. The Latin Patriarchate ended in 64, from that time until Benedict changed it the church was still the Patriarchal Basilica of Constantinople. Since the Greek Orthodox used the church in the presence of the Apostle and the Pope they through actual access to the relic which was used for prayer by them BECAUSE IT WAS UNTIL THE CHANGE BY BENEDICT THE BASILICA OF CONSTANTINOPLE. It logically follows that they have a right to the things that by tradition is part of their church. THIS DOES NOT MEAN NOR HAVE I SAID THAT THEY HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS THE OWNER WHICH IS THE CHURCH OF ROME.
A CHILD WHO HAS RIGHTS GIVEN TO HIM AND DRIVES A FAMILY CAR EVERY DAY FOR 2 YEARS AND IS THE ONLY DRIVER WHO USES IT AND HAS THE CAR IN HIS POSSESSION. IF THE FATHER HIM A SPARE TIRE FOR THE CAR. OR IF THE FATHER GIVES HIM THE TITLE OF THE CAR MOST WOULD SAY IN COMMON USAGE THAT THE FATHER GAVE HIM SOMETHING HE ALREADY HAD. I publicly stated long before your accusation that Rome has no right to give it away.

Speaking of dense, there was no Latin Patriarchate of Constantinople in 64 primarily because Constantinople wouldn't actually exist until 330, lol. Oh, but you meant 1964 right? The Latin Patriarchate of Constantinople was only established after the last crusade and the sacking of the city in 1204. Not a huge history of it.

Usually when one decides to speak from both sides of their mouth, they at least try not to be so obvious. You said it wasn't right to give away relics for unification's sake and yet, here you are stating they really weren't being given away, then again saying they're actually united anyway in the first place. That, sir, is what I would call a jumble of contradiction. Very clumsy, comrade!

The Basilica of St. Peters never belonged in any form or fashion to Constantinople. The original Basilica was commissioned by Constantine well before the Patriarchate and the second one came long after that see had become titular in 1264. Major Basilicas weren't even a thing until 1300. It was nothing more than a symbolic association, a tribute... they don't have an intrinsic right or access to it.

But there is a good point to be made despite your obvious obfuscation. Yes, Pope Paul VI did lift the excommunication, but as might have been expected, the theological problems underpinning that excommunication were ignored. Taken along with everything else we know about Russia's involvement with the Council from the presence of the KGB ROC observers to the unholy agreement not to condemn Communism, we could safely conclude this action was part of the general autodestruction that was VII.

Then we could go on to discuss some of the notorious issues held by many of the so-called "Orthodox" and even some of the Eastern Rite Catholics (as observed personally by me a few years back at a Ukrainian Catholic church):

- Rejection of Filioque
- Rejection of Divine Simplicity
- Rejection of the Immaculate Conception
- Rejection of the inheritance of Original Sin
- Rejection of St. Aquinas and of Thomism
- Rejection of St. Augustine
- Palamite Hesychasm
- Aerial Toll-Houses
- Hell is not a separate place, but it is how the damned experience Heaven (God's Presence)
- Various elements of Eastern Gnosticism etc...

So let's just say it was for "ill."

confederate catholic · « **Reply #44 on:** July 10, 2019, 12:22:22 PM »

Oh, so than actual Eastern Catholic teaching is condemned by you.
Try reading the treaty of Brest which was pre VII and find agreement on purgatory cause there aint one.
Benedict was referred to by me XVI so obviously not 64 AD. The meandering was to try to explain to Forlorn that a Latin Patriarch was not original.
Also the Russian Orthodox Church is not in communion currently with Constantinople the only reason they were referenced was the reference to EO saying mass there.
There are two different things being discussed the right of access to pray before the relics saying liturgy there which they do. And.......giving away relics to a place they do not belong.
Your list of heresies is mostly a list of Thomistic Scholastic points that most orthodox theologians agree with and even part of discussions Most orthodox disagreement is either by uberdox and uneducated or over different. Praxis for example Copts object to deacons giving blessings and see it as a dealbreaker.