Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Stella on April 21, 2013, 06:30:39 PM
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http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-celebrates-mass-for-vatican-gardeners-janitors/
Pope Francis sits in the back of the Chapel of Domus Sanctae Marthae before celebrating Mass with the Vatican gardeners and janitors March 22, 2013. Credit: L'Osservatore Romano.
(http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/images/size500/Pope_Francis_sits_in_the_back_of_the_Chapel_of_Domus_Sanctae_Marthae_before_celebrating_Mass_with_the_Vatican_gardeners_and_janitors_March_22_2013_Credit_LOsservatore_Romano_CNA.jpg)
Vatican City, Mar 22, 2013 / 04:00 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis celebrated a small Mass for the Vatican’s janitors and gardeners on the morning of March 22 in the Domus Sanctae Marthae chapel.
Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano described the Mass as “a simple celebration to which the Pope invited employees of the garden and cleaning services of the Governorate of Vatican City State.”
The Pontiff’s short homily commented on the daily readings, explaining that we “stone” Jesus in our weak and vulnerable brothers and sisters when we have hearts of stone, according to the publication.
The Vatican newspaper reported that sisters from three religious communities were also present at the Mass - the Daughters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul, the Daughters of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary and the Sisters of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Temple.
Throughout the early days of his papacy, the Holy Father has drawn attention for his gestures of humility and simplicity.
During his inaugural Mass, Pope Francis stopped his vehicle during the procession to bless and kiss a disabled man. The Vatican recently announced that the Pope has decided to celebrate the Holy Thursday Mass of the Lord's Supper in a juvenile detention facility in Rome rather than at a basilica, where the Mass is usually held.
As archbishop of Argentina, he was known for his humility and deep affection for the poor, living in a simple apartment where he cooked his own meals, riding public transportation and spending time with the marginalized.
Other small acts since his election to the papacy have also attracted attention. Pope Francis made personal phone calls to both the head of the Jesuits in Rome and the owner of a newspaper kiosk back in Argentina, whom he informed that he would no longer need a paper delivered daily to his residence.
Tags: Pope Francis, Simplicity, Humility
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Does CNA and ETWN not seen the incongruity of this statement they publish:
Throughout the early days of his papacy, the Holy Father has drawn attention for his gestures of humility and simplicity.
In any event, I see that the Domus Sanctae Marthae chapel uses chairs and has no kneelers.
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What a non inspiring chapel. Which is a better way of calling it than use
the word "ugly" the correct turn.
No matter how much we give to the poor, we will always have the poor.
The so called "war on poverty" welfare programs that started in the
1960's. Not only do we have more poor, but it is costing many times
more. We are now on our way in becoming a majority "poverty nation".
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What a non inspiring chapel. Which is a better way of calling it than use the word "ugly" the correct turn.
That's not a Catholic chapel, it's a Conciliar chapel which accurately represents the NO religion.
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Of all the disturbing aspects in this picture, the one that bothered me most is that he is sitting in the back, with the people.
He doesn't seem to be interested in learning how to pope.
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What he doesn't seem to understand - or perhaps he just doesn't care - is that he isn't just "one of the people," whether he likes it or not. True humility would entail his accepting his office - perks and all - for the glory of God.
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The last pope to not live in the papal apartments was Pope Piux X. I wonder if there are any other similarities between Pope Francis and Pope Pius X?
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The last pope to not live in the papal apartments was Pope Piux X. I wonder if there are any other similarities between Pope Francis and Pope Pius X?
Nope.
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The last pope to not live in the papal apartments was Pope Piux X. I wonder if there are any other similarities between Pope Francis and Pope Pius X?
Besides wearing a white cassock, I would guess not.
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How about when Pope Francis says that Jesus cannot be found outside the Catholic Church?
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
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How about when Pope Francis says that Jesus cannot be found outside the Catholic Church?
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
Well, in typical modernist fashion he doesn't actually say "Catholic." Just "Church." Of course a Catholic will assume that he's talking about the Catholic Church (after all, he's pope, right? Right?!). Of course, a protestant or an Orthodox schismatic will take their own interpretation away from it, which will also be perfectly acceptable to their false religion. If you look through the comments, "Deacon" James Pearce properly expresses what Bergoglio really means:
"Since the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, since she teaches the truth, is guided by the Holy Spirit, yes, there is no salvation outside of the Church. If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of the Church and achieve salvation."
That's heresy, by the way.
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Yes, but Jesus is not found outside the Catholic Church
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Yes, but Jesus is not found outside the Catholic Church
Of course, but Francis didn't say that. And I doubt he believes it. This is the man that knelt to receive a blessing from protestant ministers at an ecuмenical gathering. The man who went for a nice PR move and participated in the celebration of Hanukkah. Need I go on?
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Yes, but Jesus is not found outside the Catholic Church
Of course, but Francis didn't say that. And I doubt he believes it. This is the man that knelt to receive a blessing from protestant ministers at an ecuмenical gathering. The man who went for a nice PR move and participated in the celebration of Hanukkah. Need I go on?
Maybe he didn't say it but I do say it.
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Another pope who had a great love of the poor was Pope St Pius V.
Against his own wishes, Michael was elected Pope in 1566. Taking the name of Pius V, the new Pope set an example for the faithful through acts of humility and charity. He visited the sick, washed the feet of the poor and suffering, and adopted a stripped-down lifestyle in accordance with his Dominican formation.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/church-commemorates-pope-st-pius-v-on-april-30/
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Poche, you're encroaching on calumny by drawing comparisons between the heretic Bergoglio and sainted popes of blessed memory. Get your new religion out of here.
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Yes, but Jesus is not found outside the Catholic Church
Of course, but Francis didn't say that. And I doubt he believes it. This is the man that knelt to receive a blessing from protestant ministers at an ecuмenical gathering. The man who went for a nice PR move and participated in the celebration of Hanukkah. Need I go on?
Good point. If Jesus isn't found outside the Church, why did he receive a "blessing" from a heretic who, presumably, would be offering his "blessing" in the name of Jesus? He obviously believes heretics have the power to impart a true blessing. BTW, whenever I hear any NO priest use "Church," I always assume he's using the VII sense of it, i.e., "People of God." Modernists are very good and practiced at using traditional-sounding words and phrases while actually meaning something completely different. Thus, you have "Lord's Supper" to describe the NOM.
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Another pope who had a great love of the poor was Pope St Pius V.
Against his own wishes, Michael was elected Pope in 1566. Taking the name of Pius V, the new Pope set an example for the faithful through acts of humility and charity. He visited the sick, washed the feet of the poor and suffering, and adopted a stripped-down lifestyle in accordance with his Dominican formation.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/church-commemorates-pope-st-pius-v-on-april-30/
Yes, but he didn't wash the feet of a muslim woman, did he? And I seriously doubt that he advised his friends to call him "Mikey." When Francis declares VII null and void and burns the docuмents in St. Peter's Square - which would be the highest act of charity for all people - get back to me.
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How about when Pope Francis says that Jesus cannot be found outside the Catholic Church?
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
Well, in typical modernist fashion he doesn't actually say "Catholic." Just "Church." Of course a Catholic will assume that he's talking about the Catholic Church (after all, he's pope, right? Right?!). Of course, a protestant or an Orthodox schismatic will take their own interpretation away from it, which will also be perfectly acceptable to their false religion. If you look through the comments, "Deacon" James Pearce properly expresses what Bergoglio really means:
"Since the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, since she teaches the truth, is guided by the Holy Spirit, yes, there is no salvation outside of the Church. If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of the Church and achieve salvation."
That's heresy, by the way.
You're saying this is heresy:
"Since the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, since she teaches the truth, is guided by the Holy Spirit, yes, there is no salvation outside of the Church."
Since you didn't underline that sentence, I'll presume you don't
have any problem with it. All it does is provide a context for the
next sentence, which follows:
"If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of the Church and achieve salvation."
So that would leave us with this sentence being the "heresy" to
which you refer, correct?
This seems to say that, the CAUSE or the EFFECT of your faith in
Christ must be one of two things, but perhaps both:
1) You are part of the Church (inside by act), and/or
2) You want to be part of the Church (inside by potency), and,
3) thereby achieve salvation (the effect of being inside by act).
That is to say, when you say, "If A, then B," either A could be the
cause, or B could be the cause.
For example, "If it is raining, the ground is wet." But it is not
necessarily impossible for the inverse to be true, "If the ground is
wet, it is raining." However, it's easy to see that the ground being
wet is not necessarily only caused by rain, even while it is
reasonable to expect that when it rains, the ground will become
wet. But in any case, the ground being wet cannot EVER be the
CAUSE of the rain!
The given sentence is not so simple as rain and wet ground,
however. It has a double element, namely your being inside the
Church, and your DESIRE to be inside the Church.
Furthermore, adding to the confusion is the lack of certainty as to
which is the cause and which is the effect: your faith in Christ
or your being inside the Church, whether by act or by potency.
So, my question to you, Mithrandylan, is: are you saying that
it is the ambiguity that is "heretical," or something else?
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In the end, I have to wonder if St. Mary Magdalene was brought
into the proceedings at any time, since she is the one who had
thought that Our Lord was the gardener when she was
grieving at the empty tomb on the day of the Resurrection.
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Yes, but Jesus is not found outside the Catholic Church
Of course, but Francis didn't say that. And I doubt he believes it. This is the man that knelt to receive a blessing from protestant ministers at an ecuмenical gathering. The man who went for a nice PR move and participated in the celebration of Hanukkah. Need I go on?
Maybe he didn't say it but I do say it.
Even the protestants in the comments sections are confused:
Keenereader • 6 days ago
Does he mean that anyone who is not a member of the Catholic church can't find Jesus? Or does he mean that anyone who is not a Christian can't find Jesus? I wish he was a bit more clear. Can someone clear this up?
Only modernists and those infected with modernism will immediately explain away the popes actions in a Catholic manner. The protestant quoted above is right to question it; and surely one could imagine Pope Francis, based on his prior public actions, explaining it in a manner to accommodate and be inclusive of him.
Thats why its called M-O-D-E-R-N-I-S-M.
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I was thinking of including an application of a particular item in this
post, below, but I couldn't remember where I found it. Later today,
I found it (It's from an article linked here (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24309&min=5#p4) by BfromA in answer to
Ekim's question), so I'll stick it on at the end of this:
How about when Pope Francis says that Jesus cannot be found outside the Catholic Church?
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
Well, in typical modernist fashion he doesn't actually say "Catholic." Just "Church." Of course a Catholic will assume that he's talking about the Catholic Church (after all, he's pope, right? Right?!). Of course, a protestant or an Orthodox schismatic will take their own interpretation away from it, which will also be perfectly acceptable to their false religion. If you look through the comments, "Deacon" James Pearce properly expresses what Bergoglio really means:
"Since the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, since she teaches the truth, is guided by the Holy Spirit, yes, there is no salvation outside of the Church. If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of the Church and achieve salvation."
That's heresy, by the way.
You're saying this is heresy:
"Since the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, since she teaches the truth, is guided by the Holy Spirit, yes, there is no salvation outside of the Church."
Since you didn't underline that sentence, I'll presume you don't
have any problem with it. All it does is provide a context for the
next sentence, which follows:
"If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of the Church and achieve salvation."
So that would leave us with this sentence being the "heresy" to
which you refer, correct?
This seems to say that, the CAUSE or the EFFECT of your faith in
Christ must be one of two things, but perhaps both:
1) You are part of the Church (inside by act), and/or
2) You want to be part of the Church (inside by potency), and,
3) thereby achieve salvation (the effect of being inside by act).
That is to say, when you say, "If A, then B," either A could be the
cause, or B could be the cause.
For example, "If it is raining, the ground is wet." But it is not
necessarily impossible for the inverse to be true, "If the ground is
wet, it is raining." However, it's easy to see that the ground being
wet is not necessarily only caused by rain, even while it is
reasonable to expect that when it rains, the ground will become
wet. But in any case, the ground being wet cannot EVER be the
CAUSE of the rain!
The given sentence is not so simple as rain and wet ground,
however. It has a double element, namely your being inside the
Church, and your DESIRE to be inside the Church.
Furthermore, adding to the confusion is the lack of certainty as to
which is the cause and which is the effect: your faith in Christ
or your being inside the Church, whether by act or by potency.
So, my question to you, Mithrandylan, is: are you saying that
it is the ambiguity that is "heretical," or something else?
The item I wanted to include is from the "Oath of Fidelity" quoted in
The Recusant, #6 (It's from an article linked here (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24309&min=5#p4) by BfromA in
answer to Ekim's question):
The paragraph with which the oath concludes, quoted in our last issue (Recusant 6), is clearly the worst part and reads as follows:
“Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and
intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or
the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their
authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim
these teachings by a definitive act.”
To drive the point home, anyone who takes this Oath of Fidelity would
seem to be promising to adhere with religious submission of will and
intellect to such things as that above, specifically the teaching,
"Since the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ, since she teaches
the truth, is guided by the Holy Spirit, yes, there is no salvation outside
of the Church. If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of
the Church and achieve salvation."
..because certainly, this Deacon's interpretation is not a "definitive act"
by which the Pope or College of Bishops "intended to proclaim" the
teaching ostensibly given by the Pope (according to the Deacon!)..
..because here is a "Deacon of the Church" giving his interpretation of
what the Pope meant when he had said something similar, so who among
the Faithful should then ignore it, and who among the Faithful would be
accused of error if they were to believe it "with religious submission of
will and intellect, according to the above quoted final paragraph of the
so-called Oath of Fidelity?
This Oath of Fidelity was written in 1989, but this was not the first
attempt at replacing the Oath Against Modernism that had been
abandoned about 1967. Under Pope Paul VI there was another such
thing, as I recall, it was called the Promise of Fidelity or something like
that and was listed in a category called "Vatican Statements." But I
cannot find it now. That one was used by progressives to take the
place of the Oath Against Modernism of Pope St. Pius X.
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Neil Obstat, the sentence "If you have faith in Christ, you are or want to be part of the Church and achieve salvation" is heretical if for only the fact that it leaves "achieving salvation" merely to having Faith in Christ. More can be said, but I would rest my case on that.
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Pope Francis meant that you can't find Jeus outside of the Catholic Church. If a non Catholic does happen to find Him, somehow the Catholic Church is involved. I am reminded of a certain convert who was a Pentecostal. She was big on seeking inspiration from the Holy Spirit. One day the Holy Spirit spoke to her and asked her, "Wouldn't you like to recieve the Body Of Jesus in Holy Communion?" That was how she became a Catholic and the rest is history.
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Pope Francis meant that you can't find Jeus outside of the Catholic Church. If a non Catholic does happen to find Him, somehow the Catholic Church is involved. I am reminded of a certain convert who was a Pentecostal. She was big on seeking inspiration from the Holy Spirit. One day the Holy Spirit spoke to her and asked her, "Wouldn't you like to recieve the Body Of Jesus in Holy Communion?" That was how she became a Catholic and the rest is history.
He's an adult. He's a professor of theology. He's the head of the biggest religion on earth (the Conciliar Church). Why should I trust an anonymous internet layman on what he "meant?"
And how can you claim he meant something he didn't say? There's no more basic truth to the Catholic faith than that there is no salvation without it. But he didn't say that.[/u] And I doubt he believes it, since he seeks blessings outside of it.
If you want to live in a world where what people mean is what you want them to mean instead of what can be determined by their words and actions, you're living in a fantasy.
By the way, I meant everything I just wrote.
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Pope Francis meant that you can't find Jeus outside of the Catholic Church. If a non Catholic does happen to find Him, somehow the Catholic Church is involved. I am reminded of a certain convert who was a Pentecostal. She was big on seeking inspiration from the Holy Spirit. One day the Holy Spirit spoke to her and asked her, "Wouldn't you like to recieve the Body Of Jesus in Holy Communion?" That was how she became a Catholic and the rest is history.
It's amazing to me how many times I've seen the phrase "What he meant was..." written by people using sophistry to explain away yet another purposefully ambigious quote by a prelate of the Conciliar Church. The VII robbers even had to add a nota praevia to Lumen Gentium. Modernists all speak the same language: ambiguity.