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Author Topic: Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples  (Read 6706 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2020, 09:35:47 PM »
Bergoglio's constant thumbing of his nose at Traditional Church teaching strongly suggests pertinacious formal heresy.  At one point he bragged and joked about being a heretic, and said he didn't care.  If that isn't a formal heretic, then I don't know what is.
Strictly speaking though, you know what a formal heretic is. It's when the Church tries and formally convicts someone of heresy, which also involves an excommunication. Like we saw with Martin Luther. 
Formal heretic doesn't mean "actual heretic", "provable heretic", "heretic in reality", "heretic based on provable facts and air-tight logic" or any of those things. It is exclusively when the Church FORMALLY declares someone to be a heretic.
That's the problem.
We have enough to go on to be Trad (aloof from this destroyer and his counterfeit church) but not enough to compel anyone's conscience. If it were simpler than that, then the Crisis in the Church wouldn't be in its 51st year (assuming a start date of April 1969, when the Novus Ordo was promulgated).

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2020, 09:42:51 PM »

Quote
Formal heretic doesn't mean "actual heretic", "provable heretic", "heretic in reality", "heretic based on provable facts and air-tight logic" or any of those things. It is exclusively when the Church FORMALLY declares someone to be a heretic.
That's the problem.

Exactly.  Formal heretic is a canon law term, by way of a legal process.  As much as we all want such legal process to happen, until it does, we laymen can do nothing about it.  The Church is not a democracy.  Yelling and screaming doesn't change a thing.  Only prayer can make changes.
.
...and at this point, it's better to pray for a +Francis death and the election of a holy pope, than to worry about a +Francis deposition.


Re: Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2020, 11:02:17 PM »
Bergoglio won't be deposed. Who is going to depose him? The cardinals and bishops who are more heretical than he is?

We have a better chance of anti-Pope Michael becoming Pope. 

Re: Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2020, 11:06:23 PM »
Perhaps it is overdue for a prayer crusade…


History records the account of St. Athanasius' prayers concerning Arius.  The below is taken from one account of same seen at https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/why-did-arius-die-such-a-death-12255

Having but eight days left, the distraught patriarch from an urge of hope within him knew what to do. He started a campaign of prayer in the cathedral. Day after day he and his parishioners prayed together there, day after day they fasted in their homes, in their appeal to a higher court. On the day before the dreaded date, at three in the afternoon the patriarch threw himself prostate on the sanctuary floor to offer his Eucharistic Lord a final petition. The attendants around saintly old Alexander heard his words distinctly.

This in brief and in essence was the petition: "Jesus my Savior and my God, if Arius communicates here tomorrow, first take your servant out of the world, I implore. But if you care for your Church, as I know you do, take Arius away."3

On that same Saturday, in the evening, Arius with a noisy following came marching through the streets of Constantinople, all of them defiantly merry in anticipation of his forced entrance to the cathedral sanctuary tomorrow, the Lord's day. They held a rally at Constantine Square, where of a sudden Arius felt ill, excused himself and went off alone. The others, suspecting nothing serious, took for granted he would soon return. He did not.

They found his body lying dead, its underbelly split open and the entrails scattered about. The body lay unattended on the ground floor of a building. The building became a metropolitan curiosity, Socrates relates. Passersby would point to it and lower their voices to speak awesomely of the death. Perhaps they were remembering that another, whom no knife touched, "burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18).


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Re: Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2020, 11:11:16 PM »
Matthew said
Quote
Formal heretic doesn't mean "actual heretic", "provable heretic", "heretic in reality", "heretic based on provable facts and air-tight logic" or any of those things. It is exclusively when the Church FORMALLY declares someone to be a heretic.


A ”formal “ declaration is not necessary. See the interesting quote from the Catholic University of America dissertation (i.e. pre-Vatican II manual)  “Renunciation of an Ecclesiastical Office” (1946)
by Fr. Gerald V. McDevitt S.T.I.,  J.C.L , p. 136.

Quote
Since it is not only incongruous that one who has publicly defected from the faith should remain in an ecclesiastical office; but since such a condition might also be the source of serious spiritual harm when the care of souls is concerned, the Code prescribes that a cleric tacitly renounces his office by public defection from the faith. Prior to the Code the law imposed a privation of office and benefice on a cleric for such a crime. This penalty was certainly imposed upon those clerics who were publicly guilty of heresy and of apostasy, but because of two apparently contradictory laws it was disputed whether the penalty applied also to those who were publicly guilty of schism. The present law attaches a tacit renunciation instead of a privation of office to a public defection from the faith. Since canon 188, n. 4, uses a general terminology, it is necessary to determine the meaning of a defection from the faith and also to determine the extent of publicity that is required if the act of defection is to become the basis for a tacit renunciation of office.

Text bolded by me in above quote.


Comments
A cleric tacitly renounces his office which means that there is no ”formal” judgement necessary -according to the code.