Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller  (Read 1424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31176
  • Reputation: +27093/-494
  • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pope Francis Appoints a Universalist - All Men Will Be Saved - to Replace Müller as Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    The new head of the CDF, perhaps illustrating the possibility of hell


    To put things in simple common sense terms, everyone knows that the Catholic Church and the wider traditional Christian Church has always taught that there is a heaven and there is a hell. Ignoring the theological glosses - limbo and purgatory - Christian and Catholic teaching has been clear that upon death, some men will go to heaven, where they will dwell with God forever, and some men will go to hell, where they will dwell with Satan and the other damned, forever. This teaching is firmly based on the words of our Lord in the Bible. Open it up to any place where hell is mentioned, and you will find Jesus stating it, always in strong terms.

    Even at the time of the Christian Fathers, there were those who rejected this teaching. They came to be called universalists, or those who believe that salvation is universal - all men will go to heaven. Universalism was always considered a heresy in the Christian Church, and "officially" so in the Catholic Church. This has, of course, not prevented offshoot universalist Christian sects from forming - the Unitarian Universalists being the most aptly named modern example.

    The twentieth and twenty-first century has seen a growth in universalist sentiment within the Catholic Church. But, since it's the Catholic Church, which contains a recognized body of Doctrine, an official catechism of teachings and all the rest, the tendency has always been couched in language that stops short of fully and explicitly endorsing universalist claims. So to use the claims of one of contemporary universalism's most well-known spokesmen, Auxiliary Bishop Robert Barron of Los Angeles, riffing of the arguments of a few heterodox twentieth century Catholic theologians, while there might be a hell, that doesn't mean that anyone is actually in it. Or to use his own well-known formulation, we have good reason to hope that everyone will be saved.

    From the point of view of logic, he may be right. But also from the point of view of logic, if he is right, then either the Gospels inaccurately recorded the words of our Lord, or our Lord is a liar.

    Today, Pope Francis appointed a new head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - the Catholic body entrusted with defending Catholic doctrine and teaching - replacing Cardinal Gerhard Müller, who had become a sort of enemy in his attempts to defend (albeit, often tepidly) Catholic doctrine from Begoglio's predations.

    The new head of the CDF is a jesuit Archbishop by the name of Luis Ladaria Ferrer.

    Ladaria is a universalist.

    I'm not going to go into a long analytical discussion of Ladaria's publicly expressed position, but it basically tracks Barron's more well-known claims - there is a hell, but it's possible, probable, or we have good reason to hope that no one actually goes there.

    Ladaria's views were laid out in the appropriately titled, . Here are some relevant excerpts. These are not cherry-picked, but among other things, include passages that Ladaria himself chose to read out in public, now available (of course) on 
    Quote
    The saving influence of Jesus and his Spirit know no bounds: Christ’s mediation is universal. Salvation in Christ is possible for all humanity, and on the horizon of theological reflection. The hope may arise that this salvation will indeed reach everyone. Salvation itself would become denaturalized if its absolute certainty would be affirmed and if we lost sight of the possibility of damnation [p. 12].

    Quote
    [T]his universality includes more than it excludes, among other reasons because the unique mediation of Jesus cannot be separated from God’s will of universal salvation (1Tim 2:3–5) [p. 96].

    Quote
    We are all called to place ourselves within the body of the [Catholic] Church, which will not reach its fullness until the whole human race and the entire universe has been completely renewed. Christian faith begins with the premise of the unity of humanity as a whole because of its origins in Adam, and above all, because of its destiny in Christ. It is inconceivable that salvation, as it is presented in the New Testament, is only for Christians and not for those who do not know Christ [p. 117].

    Quote
    We may also add the early Christian conviction that hell is something neither wanted nor created by God. Maintaining thepossibility [my emphasis] of eternal damnation is the only guarantee of the truth and reality of the salvation offered to us, which is nothing less than God’s love [pp. 130-131].

    Quote
    Jesus includes everyone and excludes no one, and all of us have received his fullness (cfr. John 1:16). The universality of salvation and unity of Christ’s mediation mutually affirm each other [p. 144].

    Quote
    Yet by dying, he gave us life, that is the life of his resurrection. Even those who do not know him are called to this divine vocation, that is, to the perfect sonship in and through Christ. Christians and non-Christians reach this goal by virtue of the gift of the Spirit that associates us with the unique paschal ministry of Christ even if it is through diverse paths known only to God [p. 148-149].
    [color][size][font]
    Again, obviously, Ladaria always stops short of saying, "I'm a heretical universalist. Everyone is going to heaven." But the meaning is clear. And of course, Ladaria would never claim that he is a heretic or even heterodox to in the least. Rather, he is simply more deeply describing the evolving understanding of doctrine.

    Or some such.

    And as always with these things, much of what he says is undeniably orthodox. Yes, God calls us all to Him. He wants us all to be saved. Jesus died so all of us could be saved. Is he denying hell? By no means, but we do not know who is in it. Perhaps (as a matter of logic) no one is. Shouldn't we hope that to be the case? And so on and so forth.

    Well, according to what Jesus said, and is recorded to have done: there were people in hell, there are now, and there undoubtedly will be many more.

    No reasonable Catholic can affirm that that's exactly a comforting thought. But there are many things that Jesus said that are not exactly comforting. He was sent to teach us - with soft words and hard ones, but always true ones, and always with our good in mind - by our Father, not our touchy-feely shrink.

    But here's what Christ did say: trust in me and come to me, through (as the Church He founded would from the very beginning assert) the Church I created, and you will be saved. I will save you if you sincerely ask me to. And you will live with me forever in heaven.

    To me, that's the most comforting thing in the world.

    The universalist version of that is a counterfeit. It's un-Christian, un-Catholic and will inevitably lead to many more souls being permanently separated from God and damned forever. It's a lie.

    And the current occupant of the throne of St. Peter is spreading it.[/font][/size][/color]
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4620/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 07:49:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why do I have serious doubts that he would actually extend his doctrine to traditional Catholics?    :heretic:


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 12:29:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Many wonder what has led to this clamorous decision, which has no recent precedent in the history of the Holy See, also because it seems that Müller has not accepted other assignments and decided to retire. The most popular explanation is that of the “expulsion of a cardinal who was not in tune with some of the Pontiff’s openness, especially with regard to family morality and the apostolic exhortation “Amoris laetitia”, even though he had tried to mediate between Pope and the four “dubia” cardinals. However, the designation of Ladaria, and not of a cardinal or an external bishop closer to Francis’s sensibility, is enough to question this hypothesis. In fact, Ladaria is not classifiable as someone “progressive”.  

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/07/02/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/the-pope-does-not-renew-cardinal-mllers-mandate-ZaZxGdiHZdOOQ055fCCLnJ/pagina.html

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1424
    • Reputation: +1360/-142
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 08:29:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/

    Wednesday, July 5, 2017
    Pope's Favorite Newspaper Opens the Hunt Against New CDF

    "La Repubblica" and the Politics of Scorched Earth

    (Rome) Pope Francis appointed a New Faith Prefect last Saturday to get rid of the old one. Because of these "necessities", the number two of the Roman Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is now number one. On Monday, the only daily newspaper that the pope regularly reads, already opened its hunt for the new CDF Prefect.

    La Repubblica disapproves of the nomination of Ladarias as a Prefect of Doctrine and the Faith
    In his home country of Spain, Luis Ladaria SJ enjoys the good reputation of orthodoxy. Apart from the unusual circuмstances of his appointment, the latter was largely positive. The pope's decision obviously followed tactical considerations, in order for the dismissal of Cardinal Miiller not to result in a revolt. Francis did not impress La Repubblica , the flagship of Italian left-wing journalism. The only newspaper he reads every day, according to his own statements, contained a "message" to the head of the Church on Monday: a disapproval of the appointment of Ladarias.
    For La Repubblica, the new Prefect is "too conservative" in any case. There is also a fundamental aversion to the institution which was the former Holy Inquisition. La repubblica, of course, does not write this.  It attacks with the dirt bucket and goes to the "tried and tested" way of denunciation. "Pedophilia: a shadow on Bishop Ladaria," is the headline, and the same on the title page. To this end, the archive photo of a rally in front of St Peter's was reprinted against sɛҳuąƖ abuse by clerics. The is a banner with an inscription "Church without abuse." The actual article can be found on page 15. The title reads: "He did not expose the pedophile priest. The Shadow on the Chief of the Holy Office."
    The case of ex-priest Gianni Trotta
    One of the two authors is the expose journalist Emiliano Fittipaldi, who was brought to justice in connection with the Vatican's Vatileaks 2 scandal. He was accused of having published confidential docuмents from the Vatican in his book "Avarizia" (avarice), published in late 2015. As the court was not able to prove any criminal offense, he was released a year ago, while the Vatican employees who had supplied him and another journalist with the docuмents, the Spanish Prelate Lucio Angel Vallejo Balda, and the busybody PR wife, Francesca Chaouqui.


    La Repubblica has blown the Tally-ho against the new Prefect
    The Catalan daily newspaper La Vanguardia took up the Repubblica article and titled it: "New crisis in the Vatican: Ladaria, recent appointment of the Pope, covered a case of pederasty. Shadow over the new Prefect of the Congregation of the Faith." This is about the case of an Italian priest named Gianni Trotta, who was removed in 2012 by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith from the clerical state. Trotta then became a soccer coach and abused minor children. In spring 2015 he was arrested and sentenced to eight years imprisonment by an Italian criminal court. The case had been reported in great detail by Repubblica and L'Espresso, the weekly magazine, last February.
    The Congregation conducted the trial of the 49-year-old Trotta in 2009, which ended with the maximum sentence, the laicizationRepubblica criticizes the fact that Trotta was condemned by the Vatican but that the judgment was not publicly disclosed. In this way the people had not been warned in some small places in Puglia. In addition, Trotta, who was active as a coach of children's teams, continued to work as a priest, to gain people's confidence.
    The crime of abuse relevant to criminal law were all committed after he had been laicized. This applies to the abuse of an eleven-year-old boy, for which he was sentenced to eight years in the first instance. This also applies to other cases of abuse involving the production and distribution of child pornography, for which he will soon be responsible. Repubblica criticizes the fact that they might have been prevented if the Vatican had made the case public. The daily newspaper even goes so far as to blame Ladaria for having "covered up" a case of pedophilia. The concept of cover-up is overshadowed here because Ladaria was not involved in the cover-up, but in the condemnation of Trotta.
    Politics of the Scorched Earth at La Repubblica
    The decree of laicization from 2012 was signed by Cardinal Levada. Then Cardinal Levada, and Ladaria, was then secretary of the Congregation. Repubblica , however, makes a cover-up of the conviction. According to Repubblica, the Congregation of the Faith would have had to publicly denounce Trotta. A doubtful demand to the Church, in which a maxim is to be hard against sin, but mild to the sinner. Repubblica's fretting, therefore, is probably more about something else.
    The new Prefect,  Luis Ladaria Ferrer, is virtually unknown to the general public, including most Catholics. The Repubblica article guarantees that his name is immediately placed in a negative context. "The Prefect did not bring the pedophile ex-priest to the public,"... "cover-up of a pedophile scandal" are the headlines spread over media and social networks. It's an imagery that can hardly be bettered. What is the purpose of La Repubblica with the immediate tally-ho on the newly named Prefect?
    When Pope Francis was elected, Eugenio Scalfari, the founder and father of La Repubblica, was his preferred partner. The result was several interviews and editorials of doubtful content. In the meantime, it has become quieter because the confessed atheist from a family with an old Masonic tradition, whom Pope Francis "does not want to convert", is already in his 94th year.
    The fact is that this is the message that La Repubblica has noted with satisfaction the dismissal of Cardinal Müller and has declared the hunt for his successor.

    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 11:45:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/

    Wednesday, July 5, 2017
    Pope's Favorite Newspaper Opens the Hunt Against New CDF

    "La Repubblica" and the Politics of Scorched Earth

    (Rome) Pope Francis appointed a New Faith Prefect last Saturday to get rid of the old one. Because of these "necessities", the number two of the Roman Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is now number one. On Monday, the only daily newspaper that the pope regularly reads, already opened its hunt for the new CDF Prefect.

    La Repubblica disapproves of the nomination of Ladarias as a Prefect of Doctrine and the Faith
    In his home country of Spain, Luis Ladaria SJ enjoys the good reputation of orthodoxy. Apart from the unusual circuмstances of his appointment, the latter was largely positive. The pope's decision obviously followed tactical considerations, in order for the dismissal of Cardinal Miiller not to result in a revolt. Francis did not impress La Repubblica , the flagship of Italian left-wing journalism. The only newspaper he reads every day, according to his own statements, contained a "message" to the head of the Church on Monday: a disapproval of the appointment of Ladarias.
    For La Repubblica, the new Prefect is "too conservative" in any case. There is also a fundamental aversion to the institution which was the former Holy Inquisition. La repubblica, of course, does not write this.  It attacks with the dirt bucket and goes to the "tried and tested" way of denunciation. "Pedophilia: a shadow on Bishop Ladaria," is the headline, and the same on the title page. To this end, the archive photo of a rally in front of St Peter's was reprinted against sɛҳuąƖ abuse by clerics. The is a banner with an inscription "Church without abuse." The actual article can be found on page 15. The title reads: "He did not expose the pedophile priest. The Shadow on the Chief of the Holy Office."
    The case of ex-priest Gianni Trotta
    One of the two authors is the expose journalist Emiliano Fittipaldi, who was brought to justice in connection with the Vatican's Vatileaks 2 scandal. He was accused of having published confidential docuмents from the Vatican in his book "Avarizia" (avarice), published in late 2015. As the court was not able to prove any criminal offense, he was released a year ago, while the Vatican employees who had supplied him and another journalist with the docuмents, the Spanish Prelate Lucio Angel Vallejo Balda, and the busybody PR wife, Francesca Chaouqui.


    La Repubblica has blown the Tally-ho against the new Prefect
    The Catalan daily newspaper La Vanguardia took up the Repubblica article and titled it: "New crisis in the Vatican: Ladaria, recent appointment of the Pope, covered a case of pederasty. Shadow over the new Prefect of the Congregation of the Faith." This is about the case of an Italian priest named Gianni Trotta, who was removed in 2012 by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith from the clerical state. Trotta then became a soccer coach and abused minor children. In spring 2015 he was arrested and sentenced to eight years imprisonment by an Italian criminal court. The case had been reported in great detail by Repubblica and L'Espresso, the weekly magazine, last February.
    The Congregation conducted the trial of the 49-year-old Trotta in 2009, which ended with the maximum sentence, the laicization. Repubblica criticizes the fact that Trotta was condemned by the Vatican but that the judgment was not publicly disclosed. In this way the people had not been warned in some small places in Puglia. In addition, Trotta, who was active as a coach of children's teams, continued to work as a priest, to gain people's confidence.
    The crime of abuse relevant to criminal law were all committed after he had been laicized. This applies to the abuse of an eleven-year-old boy, for which he was sentenced to eight years in the first instance. This also applies to other cases of abuse involving the production and distribution of child pornography, for which he will soon be responsible. Repubblica criticizes the fact that they might have been prevented if the Vatican had made the case public. The daily newspaper even goes so far as to blame Ladaria for having "covered up" a case of pedophilia. The concept of cover-up is overshadowed here because Ladaria was not involved in the cover-up, but in the condemnation of Trotta.
    Politics of the Scorched Earth at La Repubblica
    The decree of laicization from 2012 was signed by Cardinal Levada. Then Cardinal Levada, and Ladaria, was then secretary of the Congregation. Repubblica , however, makes a cover-up of the conviction. According to Repubblica, the Congregation of the Faith would have had to publicly denounce Trotta. A doubtful demand to the Church, in which a maxim is to be hard against sin, but mild to the sinner. Repubblica's fretting, therefore, is probably more about something else.
    The new Prefect,  Luis Ladaria Ferrer, is virtually unknown to the general public, including most Catholics. The Repubblica article guarantees that his name is immediately placed in a negative context. "The Prefect did not bring the pedophile ex-priest to the public,"... "cover-up of a pedophile scandal" are the headlines spread over media and social networks. It's an imagery that can hardly be bettered. What is the purpose of La Repubblica with the immediate tally-ho on the newly named Prefect?
    When Pope Francis was elected, Eugenio Scalfari, the founder and father of La Repubblica, was his preferred partner. The result was several interviews and editorials of doubtful content. In the meantime, it has become quieter because the confessed atheist from a family with an old Masonic tradition, whom Pope Francis "does not want to convert", is already in his 94th year.
    The fact is that this is the message that La Repubblica has noted with satisfaction the dismissal of Cardinal Müller and has declared the hunt for his successor.
    Do you mean to imply that Pope Francis made a good choice in Ladarias?


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1424
    • Reputation: +1360/-142
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 05:43:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Did you read the whole article?
    Most likely another ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ but it was BENEDICT XVI who brought him there as Secretary. The CDF had also the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ priest that came out of the closet during the synod and who knows how many more.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 10:38:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Did you read the whole article?
    Most likely another ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ but it was BENEDICT XVI who brought him there as Secretary. The CDF had also the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ priest that came out of the closet during the synod and who knows how many more.
    La Repubblica said, "In his home country of Spain, Luis Ladaria SJ enjoys the good reputation of orthodoxy". 

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4620/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 02:01:44 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • La Repubblica said, "In his home country of Spain, Luis Ladaria SJ enjoys the good reputation of orthodoxy".
    And, of course, modern day Spain is the paragon of orthodoxy.  


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pope Francis appoints a Universalist to replace Cardinal Muller
    « Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 03:11:06 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • And, of course, modern day Spain is the paragon of orthodoxy.  
    God can't make things any clearer, anyone that still thinks the Vatican church is Catholic, is blind or chooses to be blind out of some convenience.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24