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Author Topic: Pope Fancis  (Read 1447 times)

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Offline poche

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Pope Fancis
« on: August 14, 2015, 11:49:27 PM »
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  • Are you still trying to understand Pope Francis? Join the club.

    For those of us who are struggling to understand the Holy Father’s way of thinking, Nick Miroff of the Washington Post has provided a few very useful insights. First he cited the influence of Argentina’s Juan Peron, a populist strongman who was not a conventional leftist, but certainly not a rightist—in fact, a demagogue who defied easy categorization. The New York Times and The Economist agree that Peron, who controlled Argentina during his formative years, had an important influence on Pontiff’s thinking, especially on political topics.

    Unfortunately, that bit of analysis does not enable us to predict how the Pope will respond to public issues. Peron himself was unpredictable; it was always much easier to say what he opposed than to know what he endorsed. (Does that sound familiar?)

    But Miroff followed up with another column arguing that Pope Francis is “neither a liberal nor a conservative. He’s an evangelist.”

    Okay, but what does that mean? Miroff predicts that “partisans of the culture war” will constantly be frustrated by this Pope, because he avoids taking positions that might interfere with his primary goal, which is to encourage people to test the waters of the Catholic faith. Pope Francis has little patience for debates about who is inside, and who is outside, the Church; he wants to concentrate on bringing more people inside. Thus Miroff writes:

    He will likely continue to stake out positions on major social questions -- like his remarks on divorce -- but probably to the extent that they further his goal of getting clergy to stop thinking of themselves as gatekeepers of the faith…He wants the church doors open, and for priests and parishioners to stop worrying so much about who walks through them.

    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=1122


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #1 on: August 15, 2015, 02:28:22 AM »
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  • .

    Quote
    ...Pope Francis has little patience for debates about who is inside, and who is outside, the Church; he wants to concentrate on bringing more people inside...
     

    A.  Little patience for debates about who is inside and who is outside

    Therefore, whether one is "inside" or "outside" is not worth any discussion, e.g., it's not important.


    B.  Wants to concentrate on bringing more people inside


    But whether "more people" are inside or outside is not important (see A).

    Therefore, Pope Francis wants to concentrate on unimportant things.




    Time was, a simple tool was used by the Pope to end discussion:  it was called definition.  


    "Rome has spoken - the discussion is closed."          

    (Roma locuta, causa finita est.)[/b]            





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    Offline TKGS

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #2 on: August 15, 2015, 04:40:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    But Miroff followed up with another column arguing that Pope Francis is “neither a liberal nor a conservative. He’s an evangelist.”

    ...his goal of getting clergy to stop thinking of themselves as gatekeepers of the faith…He wants the church doors open, and for priests and parishioners to stop worrying so much about who walks through them.


    As for Bergoglio being an evangelist, I agree.  The problem is that he's not an evangelist for Catholicism.  The next comment describes what it is he evangelizes for:  A dogma-less church.  In his church there is no doctrine, there are not "gatekeepers of the faith".  It's merely a social-services organization; another NGO working alongside the United Nations to care for people according to his view of what their problems are.

    Where Miroff errs is his comment that this is neither liberal nor conservative.  This is exactly what liberalism is.

    Offline OHCA

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #3 on: August 15, 2015, 06:19:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    ". . .[H]e avoids taking positions that might interfere with his primary goal, which is to encourage people to test the waters of the Catholic faith. Pope Francis has little patience for debates about who is inside, and who is outside, the Church; he wants to concentrate on bringing more people inside. Thus Miroff writes:

    He will likely continue to stake out positions on major social questions -- like his remarks on divorce. . .

    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=1122


    So is Frank (a) trying to trick/deceive people into "test[ing] the waters of the Catholic faith;" or is he (b) changing teaching on faith and morals to be more appealing to prospective parishioners who are of the world with no design on nor interest in repentance and changing their ways?

    Did you post this, Poche, thinking that it sheds a flattering light upon Frank?  That it shows his wisdom?  His solid Catholic thinking & modus operandi?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 08:34:07 AM »
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  • Honestly, what is this author smoking?

    Miroff predicts that “partisans of the culture war” will constantly be frustrated by this Pope, because he avoids taking positions that might interfere with his primary goal, which is to encourage people to test the waters of the Catholic faith.


    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 08:53:31 PM »
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  • Don't feed the troll.  Just ignore all his posts.

    Offline poche

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 01:15:35 AM »
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  • We know what Pope Francis is saying: "You must try to seek God in every human life." And, of believing gαys, "Who am I to judge them?"

    But what does Pope Francis think, really? What is his theology and what is his vision for the Catholic church?

    Perhaps there is a clue in one of the pontif''s most recent appointments -- the naming of the Rev. Robert Barron to auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. If Barron's writing reflects the pope's own thinking, then Francis's theology is both lucid -- and traditional.

    The Central Truth

    For Fr. Barron, the central truth of all Christianity is the Incarnation. It is the shocking notion that God, the Creator and Ground of the Universe, humbled itself to take on human form, to enter into and enhance creation.

    The difference between Catholicism and the rest of Christianity, according to Barron, is that other denominations fail to take the Incarnation seriously enough. If one does

    indeed accept Jesus as the human face of God, after all, the ramifications are huge and - quite literally - awesome.

    In his book, "Catholicism: A Journey to the Heart of the Faith" (Image), Barron cites an often overlooked passage in Mark (10:32): "And they were on the road, going up to Jerusalem and Jesus was walking ahead of them; and they were amazed, and those who followed were afraid."

    And why not? If that is indeed God Incarnate walking up the road ahead of you, fear and amazement would be the most fitting response. And that, according to Barron, is why Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular asks for a commitment: Is Jesus divine? Or not?

    And the Doctrine That Follows

    Barron says yes, and from there his text marches boldly on to explain and assert the body of Catholic belief as centuries of church authorities have built and elaborated upon it -- beginning with the Incarnation and extending to the Resurrection, Pentecost, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the apparitions at Lourdes, the communion of saints like Therese of Lisieux and Katharine Drexel, and the doctrines of heaven, hell and purgatory.

    Barron also tackles - fearlessly - the Catholic church's age-old understanding of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, which Barron characterizes as "nothing other than a sacramental extension of the Incarnation across space and time, the manner in which Christ continues to abide, in an embodied way with his church."

    Protestant and Orthodox Christians, of course, would assert that accepting the Incarnation does not necessarily lead to faith in an Immaculate Conception, in miracles at Lourdes or many of the other doctrines of the Catholic church -- including those prohibiting the use of birth control.

    But Barron, to his credit, is a wonderfully lucid writer who, like his church, is not afraid to commit to a clear and powerful understanding of who Jesus was. Which maybe explains why the Catholic church continues to be such a powerful force in the lives of millions of Catholics around the world, and why all those Catholics, including their newest pope, are so darned Catholic.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-falconer-newhall/new-pope-francis-appointee_b_8023150.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 04:17:26 AM »
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  • Fr. Barron traditional?  No, but he does make a good Vatican II "bishop".
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline BTNYC

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    Pope Fancis
    « Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 09:35:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Don't feed the troll.  Just ignore all his posts.


    And a troll he most certainly is.

    But a "simple," "sincere," and "optimistic" troll, so apparently, we must suffer his continued presence here until he slips up and shows some trace of, I don't know... "complexity," "insincerity," and "pessimism," I guess.

    Certainly, his repeated manifestations of Modernism, Indifferentism, and Liberalism have not sufficed to impede this troll (or shill) on his path to becoming the most prolific poster on an ostensibly Traditional Catholic forum.