This is as pathetic as it gets. Note the parts I have bolded.

Melissa Eddy and Victor L. Simpson/ Associated Press
Erfurt, Germany— Pope Benedict XVI made a landmark visit Friday to the monastery where Martin Luther studied before splitting from the Catholic Church centuries ago and launching the Protestant Reformation.

In a sign of how far relations have improved between the two churches in recent decades, the pope praised Luther for his "deep passion and driving force" in his beliefs. He didn't announce any concrete steps to achieve greater unity among Christians, as some had hoped.

During an ecuмenical service held in the monastery's stone chapel, with soaring stained glass windows that date from even before Luther prayed here in the early 1500s, Benedict acknowledged there was talk ahead of the visit that he would come bearing an "ecuмenical gift."

But the pontiff told an audience including representatives of Germany's Lutheran Church that such a belief was "a political misreading of faith and of ecuмenism."

Leaders from both sides of the church were quick to underline that the pontiff's mere presence in the heartland of the Reformation was a key signal to how vastly relations have improved.

"It must be recalled that the pope has come to this monastery in Erfurt as a gesture that is an indication that he is fully aware of its meaning," said Thies Gundlach, a deputy in the German Lutheran Church.

Nevertheless, expectations from the Lutherans remain high, as the community looks ahead to celebrations marking the 500th anniversary of Luther's nailing his 95 theses to the door of the Castle church in nearby Wittenberg demanding change in the Catholic church that ultimately led to a split.

German Lutheran leader Nikolaus Schneider told the pope "it is time to take real steps for reconciliation" and suggested Catholics join Protestants in marking the anniversary of the Reformation in 2017.

The pontiff started the day in Berlin with a private Mass and meetings with leaders from Germany's Muslim community. He met with Jєωιѕн leaders on Thursday, before celebrating a Mass in Berlin that attracted some 70,000 faithful from across the nation and beyond.

In the closed-door meeting, Benedict told more than a dozen Muslim leaders that he understood the "great importance" Muslims placed on the religious dimension of life and emphasized the importance of values shared by both the religions in an increasingly secularized society.

Aiman Mazyek, the chairman of Germany's Central Council of Muslims, said he welcomed Benedict's message of increased Muslim-Christian dialogue as an "important and friendly sign."

In Erfurt, the pope concentrated on issues of Germany's divided past, both spiritual and political.

Luther was ordained in this town in eastern Germany. He lived in Erfurt's Augustine monastery as a monk before his protest against the Roman Catholic Church in 1517.

Also a professor of theology, he was excommunicated by the pope for disputing church tenets and sparked the Protestant Reformation that led to the creation of the Lutheran church. The split among German Christians remains a point of dispute to this day.

Some Catholics and Lutherans have called for a joint commission to examine the Reformation and Luther's excommunication.

After a morning in the city, Benedict is to travel to a small chapel nestled deep in the former East Germany, where he will honor those Catholics who helped resist communist rule.

Benedict's visit also has drawn protesters, many opposed to the Catholic church's views on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, abortion and other issues. About 9,000 people protested in downtown Berlin on Thursday and more protests were planned in Erfurt.

I suppose Assisi will be no different this time around.

Notice how there is no talk of conversion between Benedict and the non-Catholic religions, it's all about getting along and feeling good. Baskerville hit the nail on the head in another thread, Vatican II is just kumbaya nonsense, and Benedict is a heretic. I do not call myself a sede but definitely understand why some would feel the need to take the stance after reading an article like this.

Well SS, if you want to say that he's a heretic, you would inevitably end up being a sede, because it is a(n unfortunately little known) fact that a heretic cannot possibly be Pope.

Even though my position is "we don't have to judge the see of Peter", I still believe (for all intents and purposes) that he's a heretic. I've just chosen not to say whether or not for sure he's a heretic, even though I believe that conclusion is correct and that it's not unreasonable to come to such a conclusion. Pertinacity is assumed based on his repeated denials of the faith (i.e. boldly rejecting the Syllabus of Pope Pius IX), his disregard for any opposition to his errors and the fact that he's an academic and has proven to know a great deal about the history of the Church.

So what was wrong about what this article says? The Pope is building bridges to other faiths. If you want to convert other faiths, you don't angrily condemn them. The Muslims and Lutherans already know we have differences with them. Reinforcing the differences only reduces the chances of any future union. By befriending them on the natural level, we build trust, and on that trust we can build communication (dialogue) and eventually move towards more and more common ground. We need to win them over through our Christian charity and example. Fierce criticism and condemnation will not only not serve to convert any of them, but, to the contrary, harden their hearts against the Faith.

So what was wrong about what this article says?

Pay attention. This has been discussed already.

The Pope is building bridges to other faiths.

The Church's duty is not to "build bridges" to other faiths, it is to aid in the destruction of all false religions by propagation of the truth and to bring all human beings into her.

If you want to convert other faiths, you don't angrily condemn them.

If you want to convert other faiths to the Catholic Faith, you don't contradict the traditional Faith and kiss the behind's of anyone and everyone who isn't Catholic. You don't say that the Catholic Church can do things that it cannot (i.e. esteem false religions)

The Muslims and Lutherans already know we have differences with them.

So? The Muslims are infidels and the Lutherans are heretics.

Reinforcing the differences only reduces the chances of any future union.

Here's another thinly veiled heresy of yours. Subtly implying that the Church should be unified with heretics and infidels. "Reinforcing" the differences is what GIVES people reasons to belong to the Faith. If the Catholic Faith were not different to that of the Lutherans, why would anyone be Catholic?

By befriending them on the natural level, we build trust, and on that trust we can build communication (dialogue) and eventually move towards more and more common ground.

We can have friendships with individual Muslims and Lutherans, but not on any religious level. They are outside of the Church and friendships between them should not transcend to the spiritual in any way if they are to be maintained.

Also, the duty of the Church is not to engage in dialogue with false religions. 6 decades of dialogue has gotten us nowhere. Dialogue implies that these false religions are on equal grounds with us, which is false. The duty of the Church has always been to invite those who are in error to join the true Faith. That is true ecuмenism. Not "dialogue" that wastes time and converts no one.

We need to win them over through our Christian charity and example.

It is not "Christian charity" to not encourage those who are outside of the Church to join the Church because they can be saved in their false religions. It is heresy to say that.

Fierce criticism and condemnation will not only not serve to convert any of them, but, to the contrary, harden their hearts against the Faith.

The entire premise of this argument is false. Their hearts are already hardened. Proof of this can be seen by virtue of the fact that they're heretics.

Come on Santo... Who do you think you're fooling?

.... praised Luther for his "deep passion and driving force" in his beliefs.

Traitor.

One could say the same about Satan.

A traitor betrays a cause he once held, I don't think anyone remembers a time when this guy was Catholic.  He's beyond a traitor, he is a one-man wrecking ball of all that is holy, and a forerunner of Anti-Christ.  

Perhaps he feels some competition with Luther since it is a toss-up as to which is the greatest, as in most destructive, German heretic of all time.  At least Luther was honest about breaking away from the Catholic Church; Ratzinger and his cronies have almost succededed in destroying it forever, no mean feat.
On the other hand, Luther's schism had more long-term and intergenerational ramifications, with probably billions of souls falling to that heresy... It's a tough call.  But I have to give the edge to Ratzinger; it's one thing to break away from the Church, another to nearly finish it off.

I know what you mean Raoul. But Ratz was baptized, so he was at least a member of the Church at some time in his life, hence my calling him a traitor - a traitor the Faith he was baptized into and a traitor to his Redeemer, who is Head of the Church.

Yes, Ratzinger's Modernism has been manifest since at least the 1960's.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

In a sign of how far relations have improved between the two churches in recent decades, the pope praised Luther for his "deep passion and driving force" in his beliefs.

Really? Hitler also had a dep passion and driving force in his belief, but that is hardly a motive for praise. Neither is it for Luther, whose beliefs were wrong and who was dead set against The Church.

What about the anguish of faithful Catholics during that time, as they grieved over the lost of so many souls to the Lutheran sect? What about their "deep passion and deriving force" in preserving the truths of the faith and defending them against the innovators? Listen to the way St. Teresa of Avila writes about the Lutherans:

"At about this time there came to my notice the harm and havoc that were being wrought in France by these Lutherans and the way in which their unhappy sect was increasing. This troubled me very much, and, as though I could do anything, or be of any help in the matter, I wept before the Lord and entreated Him to remedy this great evil."

...

"It was that vision that filled me with the very great distress which I feel at the sight of so many lost souls,--especially of the Lutherans,--for they were once members of the Church by baptism,--and also gave me the most vehement desires for the salvation of souls; for certainly I believe that, to save even one from those overwhelming torments, I would most willingly endure many deaths."

...

"In matters concerning the faith, my courage seems to me much greater. I think I could go forth alone by myself against the Lutherans, and convince them of their errors. I feel very keenly the loss of so many souls."

...

"What Satan was doing among the Lutherans was the taking away from them all those means by which their love might be the more quickened; and thus they were going to perdition."


The Pope's praise for Luther, who along with his sect considers him Antichrist, is a disgrace to the brave Catholic heroes who stood against the Deformers and an insult to the emotional and spiritual turmoil they went through during that time.

Here are a few things that Luther's "deep passion and driving force" lead him to write:

"We firmly believe here that the Papacy is the personification of Antichrist’s throne, and feel we are justified in resisting their deceptions and wiles for the sake of the salvation of souls. I declare that I only owe the Pope the obedience due to Antichrist."

...

"But as the pope is Antichrist, so the Turk is the very devil. The prayer of Christendom is against both. Both shall go down to hell, even though it may take the Last Day to send them there; and I hope it will not be long."

His deep passion and driving force also lead him to burn the Bull of Pope Leo X in public, very much mocking it and making a public spectacle of the whole thing.

But all this is the Catholics fault now, right...?   :furtive:

Thanks for those quotes from St. Teresa. I will side with her and The Church - against Ratzinger and the Lutherans.