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Poll

Which of these groups is in schism from the Body of the Catholic Church?

The SSPX is in schism because they made a deal with new Rome.
3 (11.5%)
The "Resistance" is in schism because they refuse communion with the SSPX.
0 (0%)
The Sedes are in schism because they do not acknowledge the post-conciliar popes as valid.
1 (3.8%)
Sanborn's group (RCI) is in schism because it holds the Thesis.
0 (0%)
The SSPV is in schism because they do not acknowledge the Thuc-line bishops.
0 (0%)
Those outed/banned by CathInfo are in schism because they upset some forum users.
1 (3.8%)
All these groups are in schism.
3 (11.5%)
None of these groups are in schism.
12 (46.2%)
Some of these groups are in schism (please identify which ones).
3 (11.5%)
Other (please explain).
3 (11.5%)

Total Members Voted: 24

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Author Topic: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?  (Read 30830 times)

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Offline Johannes

Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« on: January 08, 2025, 12:28:22 PM »
Schism is a sin against charity, because it attacks and rends the unity of the Church - the Mystical Body of Christ.

Many people say they are Catholic. The Arians thought they were Catholic. Luther taught the "true Church" was the invisible body of believers. Palma de Troya thinks they are, etc. But if one is in schism from the Body of the Church (forget about Bergoglio being pope or not) can they really be considered as Catholic?


THIS poll on, What is the Novus Ordo "church"?



This ^^ Demonstrates that over 75% of users who voted believe that the N.O. is NOT the Catholic Church but something else. So, for those who voted that way (75%), you would NOT want to be in communion with the N.O. "church" because it is a false church/religion. So, in effect, those who voted that way are of the opinion that the N.O. "church" is the entity that is in schism, or apostasy (depending on how you voted).

This evidence is further supported by THIS poll: What would you do if Francis Shows up at Mass?


This ^^ demonstrates that again around 75% are so repulsed by Jorge Bergoglio that the mere thought of being in communion with him and sharing in his presence at the Mass would cause them to rebuke, denounce, or flee from him (a clear sign of disunity and disavowal).

A good technical definition of Schism is given in Slater's Moral Theology - 1908:



Source: Slater's Moral Theology

So, even ruling Bergoglio out as pope (though I know the R&R camp don't) another way one can be in schism is because one holds a false opinion about the Church and Her doctrines (errors of ecclesiology?). This is distinct from heresy.  As a result of these false opinions and forming of a "new body" they "separate themselves".  from the Body of the Church (which is exactly what Pius XII taught in M.C.)

As established from above, N.O. is a false sect/religion. So, this polling will not even take into account the Indult goers/members, who clearly WANT to belong to the N.O. and have offered the "pinch of incense" to new Rome (Sorry, but if you hold the N.O. church is the true Church then you cannot be in schism for being an indulter - "thou shalt not commit indultery").

But what about the rest of the groups who self-identify as "Catholic"? If one has even a single heresy, they are not Catholic. Also, if one has a false opinion about the Church or its doctrines, they are schismatic and not Catholic, refusing communion with other members, etc. The False Ecuмenism of Vatican 2 teaches the various sects to look at what they have in common while ignoring the doctrinal differences. How is this essentially any different than many of the "Trad" groups act/think?

Related Polls:

Poll: What did Vatican II teach? - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church? - page 1 - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church? - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Francis Shows Up for Mass Tomorrow What Do You Do? - page 1 - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go? - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Poll: What is the "Novus Ordo church"? - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again? - page 1 - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info

Are we in the Great Apostasy? - page 1 - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info








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Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2025, 01:09:13 PM »
Just Curious.

Why do you ask these polls and make your statements?

What exactly are you trying to get at?
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2025, 01:54:50 PM »
Quote from: Johannes on January 08, 2025, 12:44:04 PM
I could only add 10 options but there is one more concrete one that I wanted to add:


Anyone who is Una cuм with "Pope Francis" is in schism because they unite themselves to the heretic Bergoglio in the sacred action of the Mass.
If you agree with this ^^ option - just thumbs down this post. (I am running a pretty sweet ratio, and I don't want to mess it up).
Priests and laypeople forget or deny that it is only their opinion that the Chair is vacant. Fr. Wathen states it as the Church has always taught it.... "We say that that their private judgement in the matter must not be introduced into the Liturgy which is an official act of the Church. Their private judgement has no place in the sacred liturgy."
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2025, 02:02:49 PM »
Quote from: Johannes on January 08, 2025, 12:44:04 PM
I could only add 10 options but there is one more concrete one that I wanted to add:

Anyone who is Una cuм with "Pope Francis" is in schism because they unite themselves to the heretic Bergoglio in the sacred action of the Mass.

If you agree with this ^^ option - just thumbs down this post. (I am running a pretty sweet ratio, and I don't want to mess it up).
Snip: "This famous Una cuм of the sedevacantists...ridiculous! ridiculous .... it’s ridiculous, it's ridiculous. In fact it is not at all the meaning of the prayer"- Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, retreat at St-Michel en Brenne, April 1st, 1989

… And then, he (Dom Guillou) goes through all the prayers of the Canon, all the prayers of the Roman
Canon. He goes through them one after the other and then he shows the difference, he gives
translations, very good ones. He gives, for example, precisely this famous.. you know, this famous una
cuм.., una cuм of the sedevacantists. And you, do you say una cuм? (laughter of the nuns of St-Michel
en Brenne). You say una cuм in the Canon of the Mass! Then we cannot pray with you; then you're not
Catholic; you're not this; you're not that; you're not.. Ridiculous! ridiculous! because they claim
that when we say una cuм summo Pontifice, the Pope, isn’t it, with the Pope, so therefore you embrace
everything the Pope says. It’s ridiculous! It’s ridiculous! In fact, this is not the meaning of the
prayer. Te igitur clementissime Pater. This is the first prayer of the Canon. So here is how Dom
Guillou translates it, a very accurate translation, indeed: "We therefore pray Thee with profound
humility, most merciful Father, and we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ, Thy Son, Our Lord, to
accept and to bless these gifts, these presents, these sacrifices, pure and without blemish, which we
offer Thee firstly for Thy Holy Catholic Church. May it please Thee to give Her peace, to keep Her, to
maintain Her in unity, and to govern Her throughout the earth, and with Her, Thy servant our Holy
Father the Pope." It is not said in this prayer that we embrace all ideas that the Pope may have or
all the things he may do. With Her, your servant our Holy Father the Pope, our Bishop and all those
who practice the Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox faith! So to the extent where, perhaps,
unfortunately, the Popes would no longer have ..., nor the bishops…, would be deficient in the
Orthodox, Catholic and Apostolic Faith, well, we are not in union with them, we are not with them, of
course. We pray for the Pope and all those who practice the Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox faith! - Archbishop Lefebvre
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Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: What "Trad" groups are Schismatic?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2025, 03:56:13 PM »
Quote from: Johannes on January 08, 2025, 02:21:12 PM
I wouldn't get tied in knots over it though, I doubt many on this forum will select this option (it seems to be more of a go-along-to-get-along, let-sleeping-giants-lie, issue here).
The problem is that us laity have no say in the matter at all.  We do the best we can under the circuмstances.  Inferring that people are being complacent is an arrogant stance.  There are many moving parts and God has only given each of us different parts of a puzzle to put together and none of us know what the final picture looks like. Most of us will die before we see anything Great.

I would say that it is more important to have apostolic succession then whether the "Una cuм" phrase is used or not.  

The four marks of the church

One (the unity of the Mystical body of Christ that is alive and strong in the Faithful)
Holy (from God.  The laity does this with pray, Sacraments, penance, duty of state)
Catholic (This is what we know from all the Church prior to Vatican 2)
Apostolic (This is why the Faithful like to check the lineage of their priest)

Lets not make it more complicated.
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