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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Johannes on November 26, 2024, 09:34:00 AM

Title: Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go?
Post by: Johannes on November 26, 2024, 09:34:00 AM
Quote

Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ.
St. Athanasius

:confused: How low can we go :confused:

What is the bare minimum that the hierarchy could shrink to in order for the visibility of the Church to be destroyed and the Indefectibility of the Church to fail (if such a thing was even possible)? True "iron rations" - if you will. We are not talking about heretics holding offices, but actually losing office altogether, or if we suffered a worldwide death event, comet, super volcano, violent persecution of Catholics, etc.

Also, please add your votes to these other related polls if you haven't done so:


Poll: Can the pope teach error(s) to the Church?
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/poll-can-the-pope-teach-error(s)-to-the-church/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/poll-can-the-pope-teach-error(s)-to-the-church/)

Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/poll-are-heretics-members-of-the-catholic-church/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/poll-are-heretics-members-of-the-catholic-church/)

Poll: Francis shows up at mass tomorrow, what do you do?
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/francis-shows-up-for-mass-tomorrow-what-do-you-do/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/francis-shows-up-for-mass-tomorrow-what-do-you-do/)

Poll: What did Vatican II teach?
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/poll-what-did-vatican-ii-teach/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/poll-what-did-vatican-ii-teach/)

Poll: Are we in the Great Apostasy?
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/are-we-in-the-great-apostasy/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/are-we-in-the-great-apostasy/)


Some sources: to consider (feel free to add your own):

(https://i.imgur.com/p8uViRE.jpeg)
Source: https://archive.org/details/vannoortvol2christschurch/page/n91/mode/2up
(https://i.imgur.com/UkqIVYQ.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wnAJvm6.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tCoX9QM.jpeg)
 (https://archive.org/details/vannoortvol2christschurch/page/n91/mode/2up)
1874 Catechism:

http://catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/familiar.htm#P1Lvi (http://catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/familiar.htm#P1Lvi)

Lesson VI.—Marks of the Church

Q. How many churches did Christ establish?
A. He established only one Church.

Q. How do we know this?
A. Because He said to St. Peter: "Upon thee I will build My Church."

Q. Was it a visible or an invisible Church that Christ established?
A. Christ established a visible Church.

Q. How do we know this?
A. Because Christ has commanded us "to lay our complaints before the Church, that is, before her pastors, and abide by her decision" (Matt. xviii. 17); and because an invisible Church could neither teach the law of God nor administer the sacraments.

Q. How does it follow from this that Christ's Church is visible?
A. Because our Lord cannot command us to lay our complaints before invisible pastors.

Q. How, then, is the Church of Christ visible?
A. She is visible because all her pastors and members are visible and have always suffered persecution because they were members of the Church of Christ.

Q. For how many years was this visible Church of Christ to last?
A. It was to last to the end of the world.

Q. How do we know this?
A. Because Jesus Christ said that His Church should last to the end of the world.

Q. What are his words?
A. "Behold I am with you all days, even to the end of the world" (Matt. xxviii. 20); and, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against my church." Matt. xvi. 18.

Q. What would happen, then, if the Church were not to last to the end of the world?
A. Jesus Christ would have told an untruth; to say which would be blasphemous.






Title: Re: Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go?
Post by: Jaynek on November 26, 2024, 09:44:28 AM
A rogue bishop is someone like Bishop Strickland.  (At least under some assumptions.)  A rouge bishop probably refers to a cross-dresser.

(I normally refrain from pointing out typos, but in this case both possibilities exist, so it is useful to clarify.)
Title: Re: Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go?
Post by: Soubirous on November 26, 2024, 10:16:27 AM
^^^ ha. ha. ha. yeah, OK... Make up your mind, please. Are you here to raise carefully considered questions for discussion or are you bouncing off the walls for lulz & giggles. (You do know that there's a long-running CathInfo section (https://www.cathinfo.com/teen-catholic-hangout/) for the latter sort of thing?)

Nothing absolutely wrong with measured moments of irony/humor amid the seriousness. But rather than expect others to follow along with the ricochet, maybe try to discern within yourself which mode you're in at the moment that you post. Old Bergo's fair game, to be clear, but the cuмulative pattern since you showed up here is getting kinda tiresome already.
Title: Re: Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go?
Post by: Mr G on November 26, 2024, 12:21:31 PM
Papal elections without the cardinals? – St Robert Bellarmine (https://www.wmreview.org/p/papal-elections-bellarmine)

Papal elections without the cardinals? – Cardinal Billot (https://www.wmreview.org/p/papal-elections-billot)

Papal elections without the cardinals? – Journet & Cajetan (https://www.wmreview.org/p/papal-elections-journet-cajetan)
Title: Re: Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go?
Post by: Incredulous on December 21, 2024, 06:35:56 PM
In struggling to understand and cope with ʝʊdɛօ-masonic hijacking and resulting schism within the Holy See, wasn’t it the Dominican theologian, Bp. Geraud de Lauriers who pointed out, that “visibility” was not a mark of the Church?