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Poll

Does the Novus Ordo religion/sect teach/practice Modernism as already condemned?

Yes, the N.O. church embodies the practice/teaching of Modernism. It is the religion of Modernism
11 (61.1%)
Somewhat, the N.O. church is a mixture of Modernism and Catholicism, but it isn't straight Modernism
3 (16.7%)
No, The N.O. church is Catholicism and contains nothing of Modernism in its official practices/teachings
3 (16.7%)
Other (please explain)
1 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?  (Read 46850 times)

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Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« on: January 26, 2025, 02:19:08 PM »
Is the Novus Ordo Religion just the front for the heresy of Modernism that Pope St. Pius X condemned and warned about?

 Pacendi Dominici Gregis

Pius X condemned Modernism as the "synthesis of all heresies".
So,

IS it not convenient to argue that the N.O. church is NOT manifestly the embodiment of Modernism?
This attitude seems to allow one to perpetuate that the N.O. is comprised in membership - in some way between - a mix of true and false Catholics.
That the office holders of the N.O. are also/simultaneously the true hierarchy of the true Catholic Church.
 That people really don't need to get out of the N.O. to be saved - but can remain in it and still belong to the true Church.
This attitude allows one to feed "false hope" in a human solution to the "Crisis in the Church", and give the calming reassurance that things are not really as dire as they seem for such a large group of deceived people, who may otherwise innocently believe they are Catholic.

IF the Novus Ordo is a false religion/sect...
Poll: What is the N.O. church?

AND

IF the N.O. church is the front for Modernism - how can anyone who is in it (even if they are only in it because they honestly believe it is the Catholic Church who is teaching them) learn the true faith without error?

At best, all they can become is Modernist public material heretics - and the common opinion of the theologians is that public material heretics do NOT belong to the Church, because you would simply never know what to believe. All that the false religion of the material heretics could teach you - was their erroneous/false faith.  No matter how much truth it contained - even if 99.9% was truth, but it contained a single condemned heresy, it is then to be considered heretical and no one who remains in heresy can be said to belong to the Church, nor be saved. 
No one is to be considered Catholic who "departs in even one doctrine" Pope Leo XIII - Satis Cognitum.



IF
the N.O. church isn't the embodiment in practice/teaching of the already condemned heresy of Modernism,

THEN
what does it embody...










Online Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2025, 03:55:17 PM »
No, it's much worse than that.  Modernists within the Catholic Church were just the preparation for what was to come.  Vatican II and Conciliarism were created by deliberate, intentional, and conscious infiltrators bent upon destroying the Church and injecting the principles of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ into the Church, which they succeeded admirably in doing, and their principles were readily accepted by a clergy that had been prepared by Modernist influence to accept them.

So, there are two basic paradigms for this Crisis, ...

1) that it was just the natural result, over time, of more and more Catholics becoming infected with the error of Modernism, to the point that eventually some Popes were infected with the error, and then taught it officially.  In this paradigm, many "Churchmen" were well meaning, but misguided, wrongly believing that by "updating" the Church and making it more relevant, it would be more attractive to those in the world.

2) that the Church was infiltrated and the errors were deliberately injected out of malice into the Church, errors that reflect the evil principles of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and Luciferianism.

I believe that the primary impetus for this error having been introduced into the Church was in fact #2.  So, the Holy Ghost protects the papacy, and would not prevent natural progressions such as took place in #1 to directly cause a defection of the Magisterium.  BUT ... #1 also needed to happen as preparation for the errors to take hold and to be widely accepted.  Otherwise, had that not happened, 90%+ of the Church would have just spurned the V2 Antipopes and remained "Traditional Catholics" ... booting them to the side, and very possibly calling a General Council to declare them deposed.

And "Modernism" is really just one smaller aspect of the larger error, the larger error being that of "subjectivism", as I pointed out on a Bishop Williamson thread.  He, like very few others, identified and named this root cause error of all the V2 errors.  And what is subjectivism, really?  It's the replacement of an objective truth outside of oneself with each individual becoming his own measure of truth, i.e. the replacement of God with man, i.e. the spirit of Antichrist as described by St. Paul.  It's the old "Do what thou wilt." philosophy that Satan has tricked some useful idiot followers into believing that it leads to their empowerment rather than their enslavement.  But they'll find out eventually.

I now determine what my truth is, not God.  Just as Satan tricked Eve with "you shall be like gods".  Now, the next step with this transgender and transhumanist garbage is that "I can create myself."  So I do not accept what God created me to be (male or female), but I will decide and re-create myself according to my own designs.


Online Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2025, 04:43:08 PM »
So, you do NOT believe that the N.O. church is the embodiment of the practices/teachings of Modernism, but rather Subjectivism which has NOT yet been condemned as such (in explicit form as a heresy), and this is why you maintain that one can remain Catholic while still attached in some way to the N.O. structure?

:facepalm: ... you've bumbled, fumble, and conflated about half a dozen things here and clearly have no comprehension of the last half dozen posts I've made.

At this point, I have no choice but to just leave you with this ...

Online Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2025, 06:33:54 PM »
I doubt you even know what Modernism is, from a theological standpoint.  Admittedly it's quite confusing, but the main theological aspect of it can be distilled.

So, define one or another erroneous Modernist proposition and then explain how/where it exists in Vatican II.  You just toss the word around and assume that Vatican II is a front for it without demonstrating it, just because Trads know the buzzword and have come to associate it with V2.

Online Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2025, 06:44:00 PM »
... and the common opinion of the theologians is that public material heretics do NOT belong to the Church

No, no it's not.  You really have no clue what you're blabbering about, do you?