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Poll

Does the Novus Ordo religion/sect teach/practice Modernism as already condemned?

Yes, the N.O. church embodies the practice/teaching of Modernism. It is the religion of Modernism
11 (61.1%)
Somewhat, the N.O. church is a mixture of Modernism and Catholicism, but it isn't straight Modernism
3 (16.7%)
No, The N.O. church is Catholicism and contains nothing of Modernism in its official practices/teachings
3 (16.7%)
Other (please explain)
1 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?  (Read 46857 times)

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Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2025, 07:13:11 PM »
Make it simple:  New Order does not serve God in anyway shape or form.  But it serves the federal government.  Does not serve the souls of the people.  I read federal grants, and I had the proof before me, in 1990's.  They are a Glee Club of Masons.  The Pied Piper and brain-washed to brain dead people.  Makes me cry and want to pray that much more!!

Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2025, 07:18:40 PM »
Even simpler: N. O. serves Satan!!  


Offline Meg

Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2025, 08:08:54 PM »
But where it gets even more "sticky" is what this means for the R&R because they insist on associating with the N.O. to one degree or another. When you come out - you got to come aaallllll the way out - no 1/2 lukewarmness.

It gets sticky for you, because you can't allow anyone to not agree with your opinions. You have to fight against us continually.

Do you fight against the Novus Ordo folks too? Probably not. You would likely be banned quickly from a Novus Ordo Forum. But here.....you are of course allowed to say anything you want against R&R, with impunity. That must be a cause for joy for you.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2025, 10:14:07 AM »
That religion is based on a subjective need in man and not on objective Truth itself.

This characteristic permeates everything and everyone in the N.O. religion. It is why all the new rites are tinged or tainted with Anthropocentrism, why everything it teaches is always trying to speak to "Modern Man", why the free-masonic "brotherhood of man" is its central theme and constant watchword.

OK, so you attack me for characterizing the core error of Vatican II as being related to "subjectivism", an "uncondemned" error, as you put it, and then when asked about how Modernism can be found in Vatican II ... you come up with the same answer?

Modernism is actually more specific and concrete than just subjectivims.  Its primary impact on and nexus into Catholic theology had to do with the notion that dogma could change over time or be revised.  Now the "Catholic" Modernists held that it's not that the dogma has changed but that our "understanding of it" has changed, so in a SENSE it's related to subjectivism, but it's a reference to the CHURCH's understanding of dogma rather than any given individual's.

What we see at Vatican II takes it to the next level, where any individual (Catholic or otherwise) can please God, save his soul, etc. ... if they merely follow their own (even erroneous) consciences, that to whatever degree or extent they arrive at what the objective truth ultimately is good enough and true enough for that individual even if they don't arrive at the ultimate "fullness of truth" (the Omega point, as it were).

Now, there can be a legitimate notion of developing a "deeper understanding" of dogma, since our fininte intellects and even the Church's doctrinal statement can only approach but never completely arrive at the ultimate inscrutable unintelligible inarticulatable supernatural truths, and so there is a process there of being "in progress" or "tending towards", but the Modernists tried to exploit that to where they'd say "Pope is infallible." (according to our current understanding) could eventually lead to "Pope is not infallible." (according to some future deeper understanding), which is hogwash, as a future deeper understanding cannot undermine or contradict the previous definitions, but merely add further clarification or detail to them.

So that's what was going on during the post Vatican I Modernist movement, and much of it was in fact driven by the definition of papal infallity that many did NOT want to accept.  Even Cardinal Newman (I had an argument with Sean Johnson about it), who was not a fan of the definition (St. Anthony Mary Claret died as a result of that crowd Newman was aligned with, making comments about accepting the definition (tentatively or conditionally) based on some future "deeper understanding".

Now, the other area in which Modernism had infested the Church had to do with science and new "historical" Biblical criticism underming the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture, where they had for their premises an unbelieve in the supernatural and even preternatural, so that Sacred Scripture was not primarily authored by the Holy Ghost, but, rather, the product of various circuмstances, and the backgrounds and preconditions of their human (secondary) authors ... as Catholics would regard them.  So they began dismantling Sacred Scripture, attributing error to it, distinguishing its intention to teach about spiritual matters vs. historical/scientific, etc., and we see this continued in the likes of Father Paul Robinson's "Realist Guide" (Modernist trash that it is).

So that's where Modernism as such found its way into the Church.  Subjectivism is actually much broader than this, and includes the philosophical trends that culminated ultimately in phenomenology.

But a combination of Rationalism (denial of the supernatural and preternatural) and Subjectivism (truth being truth for each individual per their own "experience" of it) were the one-two punch that they used to condition Catholics to accept the impending revolution.

But the actual revolution, while Subjectivism/Modernism conditoined Catholics to accept them, was done intentionally by infiltrators rather than somehow came to be on its own vis some "grass roots" development.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Is the Novus Ordo Religion the embodiment of Modernism?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2025, 11:24:32 AM »
Well, I wasn't attacking you for that. It matters little to me if you want to call it subjectivism, or clownassism, or whatever - you actually stated you think it is worse than Modernism.

OK.  Then I misunderstood.  In any case, it's broader than Modernism, and Modernism is just one of its many faces or manifestations.

But what I meant by it's "worse than that", is that I don't believe this was a case of Modernist notions making their way into Vatican II.  I believe that the infiltrators explicilty and intentionally injected evil Masonic principles (and not just philosophically erroneous ones) into Vatican II, but that they had used the infection of Modernism to prepare the soil, making it fertile ground to receive and embrace these principles rather than rejecting them.

IMO, the top-level Masons don't really care about some "Rights of Man", i.e. don't care about Man, but really just want to Dethrone God, and use the "Rights of Man" as the way to do it, a pretext for doing it, and a cover for what they're really doing.  Satan and his top agents could hardly care less about man or their rights.  They're using "Man" as useful idiots in their attempt to Dethrone God.  If they cared about Man, they'd actually be trying to get Man to obey God, since it's what's actually best for them, and they know it.  That's the Luciferian narrative, where they spin Lucifer like some Promethean figure (a myth undoubtedly based on Lucifer), where he's really a "good guy" that really wants what's best for man, to liberate him from the tyranny of God, just like Satan told Eve in the Garden, that God just didn't want them to be like gods, and that they would become like gods and live forever if they ate of the tree.  So these Satanists/Luciferians believe that not only will they be empowered in this life (and Lucifer will accomplish that for them), but that this power or rank will continue in Hell.  They've got another thing coming, as Satan will probably relish torturing these useful idiots more than any of the others, and their torments will be worse, with a deeper/lower place in Hell than those who fell from weakness or less evil motives.