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Poll

Could a new "pope" elected by the N.O. church "undo" the damage of Vatican II?

Yes, he can declare it heretical and anathematize the post-conciliar popes straight to hell!
15 (45.5%)
He can only admit that it was "imprudent" and then return to Tradition while passing the rest over in silence.
3 (9.1%)
No, impossible - he cannot call a General Council ratified by a true pope heretical - that would be admitting defection.
1 (3%)
He can only admit it was a false Council of the Catholic Church at all and the V2 "popes" were false claimants who defected
7 (21.2%)
No man elected by the N.O. church could ever be the pope because the N.O. church and it's clergy are NOT part of the Catholic Church.
5 (15.2%)
I heard there is poisonous fog outside - you should go outside and inhale deeply please.
2 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 32

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Author Topic: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?  (Read 56106 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2025, 02:05:59 PM »
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    • New Rome has said that V2 must be accepted using “religious assent”; which can be questioned/debated.  

    All doctrinal councils must be accepted with a higher, doctrinal assent of Faith.  

    It’s apples; oranges. 
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #16 on: January 04, 2025, 03:55:50 PM »
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    • When the Concordat was signed between Napoleon and Pope Pius VII in 1801, the Church recognised all the priests that had sworn to uphold the constitution (Pretres Jureurs) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jureur who had been declared schismatic in 1790.

    The Church then decided in 1892, that French Catholics should rally to the republic https://youtu.be/HU9REXei-yE?

    There is a real precedent for situation ethics in the Catholic Church. I suspect that should a new pope declare Vatican 2 a heresy, most trads will rally to the Church because the Catholic principle of non-contradiction has been violated so often in Church history. Those who adhere to the principle wind up dead, like Savonarola or the Cristeros. Or just ignored and forgotten like the Petite Eglise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_%C3%89glise
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #17 on: January 04, 2025, 05:08:18 PM »
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    • Almost everything you wrote is wrong and unfactual but this phase is easily the worst offender:


    Quote
    The V2 Magisterium was teaching under the pope for the whole Church
    :facepalm:  V2 was for the Latin Church only.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #18 on: January 04, 2025, 05:18:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 04, 2025, 12:28:40 PM
    Read:
    Poll: The visibility of the Church: how low can we go? - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info
    (The answers are there, but if you are bad willed nothing will satisfy you - even if I repost it all here.)

    As of this moment, this is where the "church" you belong to  is:

    "Where Peter is there is the Church." St. Ambrose.



    That's real cute and all, but I asked you where YOUR church is. Or maybe you have no idea where it is. 

    Where is your church? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #19 on: January 04, 2025, 05:35:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 04, 2025, 05:30:05 PM
    I can tell you where it is NOT.

    It is NOT with you and that sect that uses the name "Catholic" run by the "beast of the apocalypse" Jorge.

    I already pointed you to the info - no more for you.


    So no more of your divine wisdom for me? That's so sad!
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #20 on: January 04, 2025, 05:48:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 04, 2025, 05:45:43 PM
    Dogs will eat almost anything: https://breedatlas.net/why-do-dogs-eat-their-own-poop/

    2 common causes of [font=system, BlinkMacSystemFont, -apple-system, .SFNSText-Regular, San Francisco, Roboto, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Lucida Grande, sans-serif]coprophagia[/color]:[/font][/size]

    1) This can be a leftover trait from their wild ancestors.

    2) Sometimes, it’s simply a sign that a dog is bored or seeking attention.

    It could be both.



    I guess you weren't quite done in providing more of your divine wisdom.  :laugh1:
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #21 on: January 10, 2025, 02:13:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 07, 2025, 03:52:06 PM
    What about the situation with the Liturgy?

    Would he just suspend the Sunday obligation of hearing Mass for a time - until all the "kinks" got worked out? i.e.
    most N.O. priests do not know the Traditional Mass and would need training, most N.O. churches do not have proper altars, Missals, vestments, candles, tabernacles, altar linens, etc.,

    If he allowed the N.O. to be said at all anymore, anywhere (even if just for a transitional period of time), how many trads would accept that? What if it went on for a while (years), or what if it never really went away?


    How many Novus Ordites would just stop going to Mass because of their disdain for tradition?

    How would the "Tradition-loving pope elected by the N.O. clergy who condemned V2 as heretical and sent all the post-conciliar "unsainted" popes straight to hell" deal with the "liturgy wars"?
    Are you just asking these questions to get people thinking? 

    Do you have an idea of what you think will happen or should happen?
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    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #22 on: January 13, 2025, 07:29:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on January 10, 2025, 02:13:52 PM
    Are you just asking these questions to get people thinking? 

    Do you have an idea of what you think will happen or should happen?
    Johannes, did you miss this question? 

    If you expect people to answer your questions, then you should show courtesy and answer questions asked of you.
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    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #23 on: January 13, 2025, 10:27:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 13, 2025, 08:43:02 PM
    Francis has made 163 out of the current 259 "cardinals" (about 30 due to the age limit placed by the usurper Montini are unable to vote in the next "conclave"). So effectually, the "cardinals" made by Francis make up about 75% of the voting members.

    I ran the numbers at one time, and I came up with 80% of the voting Cardinals ... at this time, with another large number due to be forcibly retired within the next 3-4 years, so that if Bergoglio hangs on for another 3 years, I believe it would be that 93% of them (if I recall the numbers) would be Bergoglians, with a small number having been created by Wojtyla and Ratzinger.  Basically, humanly speaking, without direct and almost open divine intervention, the Church is finished.
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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #24 on: January 14, 2025, 07:44:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 13, 2025, 08:06:40 PM

    I would think the questions are self-explanatory (I have given a great amount of detail). Go ahead and take a stab at some if you like.

    So, now you will answer one, right?
    This is what I am talking about.  You are very vague when asked a direct question. Be simple. Be direct.  Those are virtues.  I am not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish.
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    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #25 on: January 14, 2025, 10:11:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 14, 2025, 08:55:01 AM
    Agreed. But, only if you consider the N.O. church to be the Catholic Church.

    No, it's true regardless.  Even St. Pius X used the same expression back in his day, that Modernism had progressed so far that "humanly speaking" the Church was finished.  How about now?

    So, if you're a straight SV, the current Cardinals might be legitimate electors due to having received the right via "color of title" from the Antipopes, or if you are an SV they may have received the right to elect via the material popes, or if you're R&R they may just have that right because these men are in fact legitimate popes ... and at the end of the day, these groups will never agree ... barring some divine intervention that directly manifests God's will.  I believe it was Anna Maria Taigi who prophesied that that St. Peter and St. Paul would designate the Pope after this time of apostasy.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #26 on: January 14, 2025, 05:53:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 14, 2025, 10:11:50 AM
    No, it's true regardless.  Even St. Pius X used the same expression back in his day, that Modernism had progressed so far that "humanly speaking" the Church was finished.  How about now?

    So, if you're a straight SV, the current Cardinals might be legitimate electors due to having received the right via "color of title" from the Antipopes, or if you are an SV they may have received the right to elect via the material popes, or if you're R&R they may just have that right because these men are in fact legitimate popes ... and at the end of the day, these groups will never agree ... barring some divine intervention that directly manifests God's will.  I believe it was Anna Maria Taigi who prophesied that that St. Peter and St. Paul would designate the Pope after this time of apostasy.
    Could you imagine if they made the one of the Dimonds Pope hahahahahahahaha :laugh1:
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #27 on: January 14, 2025, 06:32:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on January 14, 2025, 05:53:50 PM
    Could you imagine if they made the one of the Dimonds Pope hahahahahahahaha :laugh1:

    Well, in the sense that the entire Trad world that despises them would be triggered so badly that it might even cause a crisis of faith.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Poll: Could a new "pope" fix the Novus Ordo church and make it Catholic again?
    « Reply #28 on: January 14, 2025, 06:39:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on January 14, 2025, 06:34:48 PM
    Plus, he would probably burn the BOD/BOB "heretics", or at the least excommunicate them.

    Well, in that case, since the papacy is guided by the Holy Ghost ... that would be the will of God.  :laugh1:
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