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Poll

Can the Pope teach error(s) in his official acts to the Universal Church?

Yes - he can teach previously condemned error(s) to the UC.
Yes - he can teach all manner of condemned error(s) and even propagate new one(s) to the UC
Yes - the pope can be an antichrist, anything goes!
No - he cannot teach previously condemned error(s), but he can teach new error(s) to the UC.
No - he cannot teach condemned error(s) in his official acts to the UC.
No - he cannot teach error(s) of any kind in his official acts to the UC.
May you be infested with the flees off the back of 1000 camels!

Author Topic: Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church?  (Read 83277 times)

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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church?
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2024, 06:41:18 PM »
Quote It is not a redirection. Nor is it absurd, but rather it is the root reason you believe and act as you do by recognizing the apostasy and partially resisting it rather than outright rejecting it.
I do outright reject it, I just do it without deciding the status of popes and attempting all the theological wizardry that goes along with doing that. But the rest of your post is still way off track, I mean it has nothing to do with the law of papal elections.     

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church?
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2024, 09:55:37 AM »
You've taken what I said completely and totally out of context and used the false context as your means of avoiding facing the fact that we cannot abrogate laws mandated by popes that conflict with our opinion-turned-de fide-doctrine.

As far as the papal laws on the election of popes is concerned, we have zero to say about those because we cannot break those laws - because the law only applies to cardinals. It is for the same reason we cannot abrogate or fulfill it's mandates.
We may break the law of fasting, and we may break the law of contracting marriage at forbidden times, and so on, but the laws on papal elections are altogether out of our realm of doing anything other than acknowledging - because we are not cardinals in a conclave electing a new pope.

IOW, we have nothing to do with the law of papal elections - which law states:
Quote
29. None of the Cardinals, on the pretext or cause of any excommunication, suspension, interdict or other
ecclesiastical hindrance, can be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff in any
way; indeed, we suspend such censures and excommunications only for the effect of this election, to those
who will otherwise continue in their strength.
So while you're depending on the idea that heretics cannot be popes, PPX and all popes after him condemn your opinion as noted in the above quote. While you're promoting the idea that heretic cardinals all defected and are outside of the Church, PPX mandated that even excommunicated heretic cardinals must vote in the conclave. He did this for good reason. That you're not understanding it therefore not accepting it, doesn't ipso facto abrogate it, it is still there and will be there until abrogated by (one of the) next popes.

Because even excommunicated heretic cardinals must vote, one of the heretics could be elected. See how the Sainted Pope obliterates your whole opinion-tuned-doctrine that you depend on to maintain a empty chair? 


Offline Meg

Re: Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church?
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2024, 12:25:52 PM »
Just how many people do you believe (roughly speaking) are part of the Church Militant on earth and please list the reason you think the number you produce are part of the Catholic Church (what makes them a member).

I know that stubborn can address this question himself, but I just wanted point out that the laity aren't required to prove the number of the Church Militant on earth. Where in Church teaching does it say that we are supposed to ever know this number, even roughly speaking?  Of course you will not reply to this post, and that's fine, but I wanted to put it out there anyway.

Offline St Giles

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church?
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2024, 01:20:15 PM »
PPX mandated that even excommunicated heretic cardinals must vote in the conclave. 
I don't know if this makes any difference, I haven't read the whole thread, but is there a difference between

none can be excluded

&

all must be included

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Poll: Can the Pope teach error(s) to the Church?
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2024, 02:47:18 PM »
Quote
Just how many people do you believe (roughly speaking) are part of the Church Militant on earth and please list the reason you think the number you produce are part of the Catholic Church (what makes them a member).
I know that stubborn can address this question himself, but I just wanted point out that the laity aren't required to prove the number of the Church Militant on earth. Where in Church teaching does it say that we are supposed to ever know this number, even roughly speaking?  Of course you will not reply to this post, and that's fine, but I wanted to put it out there anyway.
It really does not matter Meg, the point I attempted to make is that it is the pope making the law who is the one  concerned (not me) with the procedure of electing a pope because it effects the whole future Church, this is why he made it a law.

All I did was throw out a random large number of "100s of millions" attempting to demonstrate the importance of the law because it effects the whole future Church, aka "100s of millions". This law Johannes deems irrelevant and insists either we can abrogate it or it self abrogates because the cardinals are heretics therefore outside of the Church, which means they could not effect a valid election which means that the pope(s) was never elected, which leads right back to his starting point that the chair is empty. Same o same o.