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Poll

Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?

Yes - all heretics, (occult, material & public heretics) are members of the CC
No - no heretics are members of the CC
Some - occult heretics only are members of the CC
Some - material heretics only are members of the CC
Some - both occult and material heretics are members of the CC
If you asked me to, I would happily punch you in the face you relentless pest!
I cannot decide/tell who is a heretic of any kind without a juridical decision from the hierarchy
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Offline Johannes

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Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
« on: November 24, 2024, 09:25:16 AM »
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    • Some sources to consider (feel free to use your own and also drop your arguments/comments with sources below):



    Source: ^^ Lesson XII.—No Salvation Outside of the Roman Catholic Church. http://catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/familiar.htm#P1Lxii

     






    AND



    Source: ^^ https://archive.org/details/vannoortvol2christschurch/page/n131/mode/2up 
    #152 -155






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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #1 on: November 24, 2024, 11:31:44 AM »
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    • Those guilty of the public sin of manifest formal heresy are not members of the Church.
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    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #2 on: November 24, 2024, 02:56:50 PM »
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    • Material heretics are not heretics, but Catholics erring in good faith. Everyone should stop using the term "material heretic" because it is frequently abused and leads to confusion.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #3 on: November 24, 2024, 03:45:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on November 24, 2024, 02:56:50 PM
    Material heretics are not heretics, but Catholics erring in good faith. Everyone should stop using the term "material heretic" because it is frequently abused and leads to confusion.
    Agreed
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #4 on: November 24, 2024, 04:07:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on November 24, 2024, 01:24:28 PM
    Example of someone living?

    Jorge Bergoglio
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    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #5 on: November 24, 2024, 05:56:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on November 24, 2024, 02:56:50 PM
    Material heretics are not heretics, but Catholics erring in good faith. Everyone should stop using the term "material heretic" because it is frequently abused and leads to confusion.
    I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that material heretics are Catholics erring in "good faith"?  
    It's true that there are many souls ignorant of the true faith and with the prayers and sacrifices of the faithful, many will be converted, but the majority of people do not love the truth but love sin more, as Our Lord said.
    Our Lord clearly stated "Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened."  So anyone who sincerely seeks the true faith will find it.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #6 on: November 24, 2024, 08:33:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michelle on November 24, 2024, 05:56:31 PM
    I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that material heretics are Catholics erring in "good faith"? 
    It's true that there are many souls ignorant of the true faith and with the prayers and sacrifices of the faithful, many will be converted, but the majority of people do not love the truth but love sin more, as Our Lord said.
    Our Lord clearly stated "Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened."  So anyone who sincerely seeks the true faith will find it.
    Is it really that simple?  People who start the search sometimes pause in things that are not perfect. 

    And don't you think that finding true Catholicism is like finding a needle in a haystack. 
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #7 on: November 24, 2024, 10:29:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on November 24, 2024, 08:33:43 PM
    Is it really that simple?  People who start the search sometimes pause in things that are not perfect. 

    And don't you think that finding true Catholicism is like finding a needle in a haystack.
    I do think it's that simple because God is simple.  He desires our salvation more than we do.  When He sees a soul of goodwill wanting the truth, He, as the good Shepherd goes in search of it and carries it upon His shoulders. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Poll: Are heretics members of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #8 on: November 25, 2024, 06:34:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on November 24, 2024, 08:56:03 PM
    Maybe this will help clear things up for future voters.



    "Material" in the vote option = public material heretic

    Too late for me.  I think the issue is public vs occult and/or material vs formal, so now I think the choice I needed was not available.
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