Author Topic: Plinio Correa de Oliveira  (Read 1264 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2018, 12:32:08 PM »
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  • their cult-like worship of their dead leader

    So why isn't the SSPX guilty of a "cult-like worship of their dead leader"?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #31 on: May 15, 2018, 12:34:04 PM »
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  • Ladislaus, you take the words from the lips of Plinio-worshippers and falsely attribute them to me.

    Ridiculous.  This was simply referencing your POST and is not attributed to you.  Everybody who's been around an online forum knows this.  And I was laughing at the image of a ghostly Plinio going around breaking computers.

    So now my TFP acquaintances are my "Plinio-worshipping pals" (that IS a direct quote from you)?  I can assure you that none of them worship Plinio.

    Have you explained yet why you have such a bitter animosity against TFP?  You're clearly on some kind of crusade and are out to get them.


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #32 on: May 15, 2018, 12:49:38 PM »
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  • I used to be a fan of Tradition in Action until I noticed that they have the founder of their parent organization, Tradition Family and Property all over their site, and ooze with admiration for Plinio Correa de Oliveira. Plinio taught of himself that "Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel."

    John T. Armour
    I WAS A MEMBER of the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) from July 1980 until January 1981. I affiliated with the group after meeting with a TFP sympathizer in my home state of California. As a member, I lived at "the TFP seat" in Mount Kisco, New York, where I received the training and indoctrination that all members are given. I consider myself very fortunate to have been convinced by some good friends to separate from this group.
       Looking back, I can now see that the TFP is a dangerous personality cult whose purpose is the glorification of its Brazilian founder, Dr. Plinio Corea de Olivera. Many highly idealistic and religiously motivated young men have been captivated by its persuasive program. The appeals to moral, dogmatic and liturgical tradition which are so refreshing in this age of turmoil are, in my opinion, simply a means to lure individuals into the cult.

    During the period of training which I received, I was taught:

       *  Dr. Plinio will never die. When his mission on earth is fulfilled, he will walk into an earthly paradise and then ascend into heaven.

       *  Dr. Plinio's mission is to defeat "the revolution," the Communistic and/or demonic forces which are corrupting the human race. He is the "pilgrim of justice" sent by God for this purpose.

       *  Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel.

       *  Dr. Plinio has the power to read a man's soul in order to determine if he possesses "Tau," the vocation and quality to fight the revolution. He is even supposed to be able to make this determination from viewing a photograph. "Tau" can be found only in males.

       * Members of the TFP are required to pledge their allegiance to Dr. Plinio. They make a consecration of slavery to the Blessed Mother and to Dr. Plinio. So highly regarded is Dr. Plinio that we were encouraged to kiss one of his hats that had come into our possession. And we kept a special room set aside for him where we had a special bed raised on a platform above the floor.
       When I first arrived at TFP headquarters in New York, the leaders convinced me that the group was not a cult. They asked me what I had heard about the group and, after correcting minor mistaken notions I had, and after I had assured myself that I was not getting into something I would later regret being a part of, I became a member. Right away, a man was assigned to watch over me, answer my questions and keep me from knowing too much until they were sure of me. He even told me what to write in my letter to my parents. Those of us whose parents did not agree with the TFP soon found ourselves referring to our mothers and fathers as the "fountain of my revolution" (FMR). The inference was that each of us had a trace of the revolution in him, and it had been obtained as a result of the corruption and leniency of our parents. We were convinced to reject and ignore any advice from them, to see this corruption in all our family members, and to treat them accordingly. In time, I grew to despise my family. On one occasion when I was being encouraged in this attitude, I told the leaders that I had caused my mother to cry when I had talked with her by telephone. The leaders actually laughed. But, at the same time, we were urged to convince our parents that they should be proud of us because we were clean-cut gentlemen who were doing God's work.
       It may seem odd that a group such as the TFP could attract and hold anyone's confidence and loyalty. But the appeal of spirituality was very strong. We all knew that something was wrong both in the world and in the Church. Here was a dedicated group living an exemplary semi-monastic life, ostensibly formed to fight the decay we knew existed. And we were young and inexperienced. I was actually convinced that I was in the Blessed Mother's special army.
       The religious overtones were very heavy. We were encouraged to receive Holy Communion daily in the TFP Chapel. That it was distributed to us by a layman who was one of our own was done only out of supposed need. That need, of course, served to provide more evidence of the spread of the revolution. (A large number of hosts were consecrated three or four times a year by a visiting priest from Canada. He left them in our Chapel tabernacle.)
       The converted mansion where about sixty of us lived was full of holy pictures, statues and other religious articles. We were required to pray all fifteen decades of the Rosary daily, and meditation was encouraged. Each evening, after dinner, instruction from Dr. Plinio was given to all. Most often, this instruction came via recordings; sometimes it was a printed message that was read. All messages were in the Portuguese language which was translated into English by one of the leaders.
       We were led to believe that, if we left the TFP, Our Lady would chastise us because She did not want anyone to leave Her army. Many tales of terrible deaths suffered by those who left were recounted. We actually knew a Brazilian member who had been transferred to the United States, but who left the organization to get married. When he contracted a bone disease which killed him, many were pleased to learn that such justice had been delivered to a turncoat.
       The atmosphere cultivated within this group is one which holds that the entire world is corrupt and only the TFP has escaped the corruption. Even traditional Catholics, such as Archbishop Lefebvre and his followers, are scorned—though never publicly.
       Very few members ever attend Mass on Sundays, not because of any inability to locate a Tridentine Mass chapel, but because most do not want to go. A few do attend Mass at a nearby Byzantine Catholic Church. Members of the TFP derisively refer to faithful Catholics who do attend the Tridentine Mass as "trads." I was mocked one Sunday for reading the Mass to myself out of a missal. TFP leaders even joke about "trad" priests saying on one occasion that they would like to have one kept in the basement to be brought out when needed.
     
    http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=773
    Makes me shudder to read the simarities between this guy and fr. Pfeiffers "seminary". 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #33 on: May 15, 2018, 01:06:43 PM »
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  • Like you, I would love to believe that. But how to explain that its use spread to Europe in the 80s and 90s?
    Also, how to explain this:
    Dr. Plinio often prophesied that he would see the battle of Armageddon within his own lifetime. His followers were kept in a constant state of agitation, expecting this cataclysmic event at any moment. The warrior monks are supposed to be key participants in Armageddon and the subsequent “Reign of Mary”. This false prophet was treated a “living saint”; his followers would bow in his presence, revere his personal belongings and compose hymns honoring him and his mother. Some militants chant a litany to Donna Lucilla, Dr. Plinio’s deceased mother, or substitute the name of Donna Lucilla for Mary and the name of Plinio for Jesus while reciting the Hail Mary.

    https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/

    So bizarre! His followers really bowed in his presence? Good heavens!

    I seem to recall reading that TFP put a lot of emphasis on the role of the laity, and that there wasn't really a lot of respect for clergy. And in some respects, the laity took over the role of the clergy. I recall seeing something about this when TFP was discussed on the old AQ forum 8 or 9 years ago, but I don't recall a lot of details. 

    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #34 on: May 15, 2018, 03:27:15 PM »
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  • Tradition in Action is not actually associated with  Tradition, Family, and Property.   Here is a link to the article explaining the difference: http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A004_tfp.htm

    Plinio Correa de Oliveira is still present on the Tradition in Action  website but it doesn't appear to be a website dedicated to his writings. All the books Tradition in Action have published were written by other authors. 


    Offline PG

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #35 on: May 15, 2018, 07:15:45 PM »
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  • The root of this TFP problem is that all of the members undergo louis de montfort slavery consecrations, which is diabolical marian exploitation.  De montfort taught that a temporal queen has the duty to own slaves over whom she has the right to put to death as her pleasure sees fit.  That is murder.  And, de montfort denies the catholic churches teaching concerning merit, which is a fundamental dogma of our faith.  Montfortian consecration is talmudism for catholics.  And, plinio and his mother fit the MO.  

    Notice also plinio's preference for the wealthy over the poor.  This is a real scourge in tradition.  

    Notice also the invalid marriage between church and state exemplified by the monk-warrior.  The monk warrior is a diabolical character.  In this world, the monk and the warrior are separated.  But, the TFP combines all of this in monastic sword play false piety.  

    "The prince of this world cometh, and in me he hath not a thing"
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #36 on: May 16, 2018, 03:58:19 PM »
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  • So why isn't the SSPX guilty of a "cult-like worship of their dead leader"?
    Because Plinio worshippers make the blasphemous statement "Let it no longer be I who live, but rather Plinio who lives in me."

    and SSPXers do not.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #37 on: May 16, 2018, 04:04:56 PM »
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  • Ridiculous.  This was simply referencing your POST and is not attributed to you.  Everybody who's been around an online forum knows this.  And I was laughing at the image of a ghostly Plinio going around breaking computers.

    So now my TFP acquaintances are my "Plinio-worshipping pals" (that IS a direct quote from you)?  I can assure you that none of them worship Plinio.

    Have you explained yet why you have such a bitter animosity against TFP?  You're clearly on some kind of crusade and are out to get them.
    At least we had a great laugh together Ladislaus. I too was laughing, but also sad, to think that the Plinio worshippers attribute such powers to their dead leader. You say "I can assure you that none of them worship Plinio."
    How then, do you explain the video posted here that has the leader of "Heralds of the Gospel" saying "It is no longer I who live but Plinio who lives in me"?
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #38 on: May 22, 2018, 03:42:21 PM »
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  • "It is no longer I who live but Plinio in me who lives" and other sacreligious Plinio-worshipping  statements in this video on another thread.

    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/plinio-correa-de-oliveira/?action=post;last_msg=609499

    OOPs, wrong thread
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 08:46:40 AM »
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  • The root of this TFP problem is that all of the members undergo louis de montfort slavery consecrations, which is diabolical marian exploitation. 

    :facepalm:

    Not this again.  You can be sure that the Church vetted his writings before canonizing him.  You're venturing into blasphemy territory here.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 08:48:37 AM »
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  • How then, do you explain the video posted here that has the leader of "Heralds of the Gospel" saying "It is no longer I who live but Plinio who lives in me"?

    You do know, right, that the Heralds is a nutjob spinoff group that have largely pushed TFP out of South America?  I've heard TFP members complaining about them and denouncing them as a nutty cult.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 02:57:15 PM »
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  • You do know, right, that the Heralds is a nutjob spinoff group that have largely pushed TFP out of South America?  I've heard TFP members complaining about them and denouncing them as a nutty cult.
    Plinio-worship is the central problem of all the groups that have grown out of TFP. When you first brought up Heralds of the Gospel, I clearly stated that they are a spin-off group. I agree with you that it's nutty to say that their dead leader Plinio is "causing global warming" and  so on. Worse than that are their sacreligious statements such as "It is no longer I who live but rather Plinio in me who lives." This is not Catholic.
    If TFP and TIA want to publicly separate themselves from their followers who continue to worship Plinio, they have a moral responsibility to state that they do not worship Plinio, do not encourage worship of Plinio, that he was just an imperfect sinful human being, that his mother was just an imperfect sinful human being. Their failure to do so speaks volumes.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

     

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