TIA has received many questions from its supporters and readers regarding its links to TFP. It was judged opportune to address these questions here as an ensemble. 1. Question: Was there ever any relationship between TIA – Tradition in Action – and TFP – Tradition, Family and Property? Answer: As for the two organizations, there were few links from the past because TIA is much more recent than TFP. TIA’s public life started after 1995, the year of the death of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira. Some of the members of TIA, however, did have past links with TFP. Mr. Atila S. Guimarães was an associate of the Brazilian TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he was excluded from the board of the organization. Dr. Marian T. Horvat also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until approximately the same time. The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II (http://www.traditioninaction.org/tiabk005.htm). There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations. 2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture? Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. That antagonism was translated into two facts:
4. Question: Is it possible to be more specific about the intentions of Prof. Plinio? Answer: Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira invited A.S. Guimarães to write the collection on the Council and gave him the necessary intellectual and material assistance to do so from 1982 until 1995 when he died, that is, for all the years it took the author to write and edit the 11 volumes. During this time, Prof. Plinio also spoke to him about his plans for the future of the collection. The author gave some of those guidelines in the introduction of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. In November 1997, after Guimarães received the ultimatum demanding that he remove the book from circulation, he responded by writing a long answer (266 pages) addressing the objections presented by the Brazilian TFP president. In that defense he reproduced innumerable texts in which Prof. Plinio supported and stimulated not only the writing of the collection, but also its publication as soon as possible. Guimarães had tape-recorded and typed many of the meetings in which he received this orientation directly from Prof. Plinio. After he finished writing his defense in March 1998, Guimarães asked two witnesses to deliver the work to the TFP president, which was done. He also printed 500 copies of this docuмent and tried to spread it among TFP members. Since the letter condemning him had been widely circulated within the TFP, it seemed fair that the members should know the refutation to it. To this day there has been no response from the directors to the defense. Further, they forbade the members to read it, and have continued to spread the fabrication that Prof. Plinio did not want to publish Guimarães’ books on the Council. 5. Question: Why did the Brazilian president of TFP and its board of directors try to forbid Guimarães from publishing his book in 1997? Answer: In several discussions with the author prior to the ultimatum, the directors avowed that as they were intellectually unprepared to face a public polemic with the religious authority, they did not want to stir up any waters. Even if one sets aside the truth of the first statement, the decision to avoid a public polemic, which in effect meant deserting the battlefront, raised a grave moral problem. Many times in History, Catholics with inferior means have been called to face enemies with superior resources. They did not run away from the fight. They had the courage to face the enemy and trusted in Divine Providence to give them assistance to win. In the case of the TFP and the fight against Progressivism in the Church the same principle should be applied. Therefore, what was condemnable in the attitude of the directors was that they lacked courage to continue the struggle, and lacked faith in Divine Providence to fill the vacuum created by their own deficient preparation for the situation. There was, in addition, another important reason why those directors did not want to enter into any polemic with the religious authority, a reason that Guimarães learned of two years after its occurrence. This was the existence of a clear-cut compromise made between the TFP directors and the ecclesiastic structure, by which they committed to refrain from any public discussion on Vatican II and the reforms that came from it. The directors sent a letter containing this promise to the Cardinal Primate of Brazil, then Cardinal Lucas Moreira Neves, giving him the guarantee that the TFP would no longer combat Vatican II and its consequences. 6. Question: Is it possible to know the content of this letter? Answer: Yes, it is. Guimarães reproduced the main parts of it in his defense. These parts will be posted below. The letter was dated September 18, 1995. It was written and sent without the consent of Prof. Plinio, who was in the hospital and died two weeks later on October 3, 1995. The pretext for the letter was to clarify some points for Cardinal Moreira Neves, who days before had attacked TFP as opposed to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. The letter was signed by Canon José Luiz Villac, an ecclesiastic who was chosen to represent the directors in the agreement. In the docuмent, he speaks, in fact, as a representative of the directors and the whole organization. The letter was delivered, but the agreement was kept quiet. Only a handful of persons knew about its existence. The great majority of TFP members did not know about this official compromise of the directorate then, and perhaps they are still unaware of it today. Here are the more important excerpts: Quote “The words of Your Eminence that ‘the TFP does not hide its opposition to Vatican Council II ... and takes a critical attitude in relation to the Mass of Paul VI in favor of that of St. Pius V,’ also contains erroneous information.From the time the letter was written until today, all the practical evidence indicates that the TFP is keeping its side of that bargain, maintaining a position of non-militancy in face of the infiltration of Progressivism in the Catholic Hierarchy. In contrast, TIA is assuming a position of active fight and public resistance. 7. Question: Is it true that under Prof. Plinio’s presidency, the TFP always took a “discrete position” and a “balanced and conciliatory attitude” toward Vatican II and its reforms as affirmed in the letter
Another work of Prof. Plinio was on the topic of dialogue and ecuмenism – Unperceived Ideological Transshipment and Dialogue. It was published in 1965 during the fourth and last session of Vatican II. The more profound purpose of this book was to break the spell of the dialogue launched simultaneously by John XXIII and Communist leaders to encourage an atmosphere of mutual collaboration between Catholics and Communists. The dangerous emotional climate created by ecuмenism with false religions was also pointed out in the book to de-mythify the fad for dialogue that was rapidly gaining ground in the Catholic religious milieu. In 1970 and 1971 he wrote forceful articles against the indirect support Paul VI gave to the installment of Communism in Chile. In 1971 he clearly and publicly declared that the conciliar Popes should not be followed should they teach against private property or try to destroy the “Constantine Church.” He also clearly criticized Vatican II for not having condemned Communism. In 1974 he wrote his famous Declaration of Resistance against the Vatican policy of Ostpolitik. In that same year, from April to December, he wrote a series of articles showing different aspects of his Resistance to some of the Vatican positions. TIA plans to post some of these invaluable pieces on its website. With regard to the new Mass, it was Prof. Plinio who invited a Brazilian scholar – Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira – to make a careful study about the Protestant tendency of the Novus Ordo and the eventuality of a Pope falling into heresy and schism, as well as a study to know when ecclesiastical laws are infallible. This scholar wrote a book on these topics, and Prof. Plinio took the initiative to publish this work in 1970. Afterward he sent it to all of the more than 300 Brazilian Bishops, with the approval of and a letter of recommendation by Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer. Prof. Plinio also encouraged the author to publish the book in French (1975), which was done. During his lifetime TFP members were not allowed to attend the new Mass. In 1982 he invited Atila Guimarães to write his collection on Vatican II, and planned to publish it around the end of 1995. He died before that. Many other similar actions could be listed here. What the facts clearly show is that the position of Prof. Plinio regarding Vatican II and the new Mass in no way can be considered “discrete” or “conciliatory.” 8. Question: Would you describe the general lines of TFP, and explain how they differ from those of TIA? Answer: Until Prof. Plinio’s death, TFP was well known for being in the front line of the anti-Progressivist and anti-Communist fights. After his death, one might say that the organization rolled up its standards and abandoned these battles. With regard to Progressivism, today TFP restrains its combat to skirmishes with several radical progressivists, leaving free ground to the non-radical enemies who have infiltrated the Church to continue their plan of destruction. It was these same subtle enemies who in times past TFP used to denounce. Before Prof. Plinio’s death TFP used to be a scourge of the progressivist and concessive Bishops; today it has become a sycophant of them. Its fight against Progressivism has been replaced by some few other actions – against abortion and blasphemous films. Laudable actions, without a doubt. But lacking any special risk, they no longer constitute the audacious fight that characterized the entity in times past. Regarding the anti-Communist fight, the organization made no significant action to prevent the election of Lula, a Communist, as president of Brazil. It made no serious denunciation of the strong support the Catholic Hierarchy gave him, which brought him to power. Again, the organization that under Prof Plinio’s presidency had prevented Lula from being elected several times, did practically nothing to stop his election in October 2002. The other actions of TFP against Communism consist of small scuffles turned to particular points trying to keep the day-to-day bourgeois establishment working. Certainly they are not bad actions, but they are drastically insufficient. The present day TFP members seem like sailors obstinately trying to maintain the day-to-day order on a Titanic that is sinking. Regarding the general mentality reigning in the organization, it is sad to consider the change: the abandonment of grandeur and the embracing of mediocrity. These certainly are not the lines of TIA. We try to remain faithful to the militant and counter-revolutionary orientation of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira both in the religious sphere, that is, the fight against Progressivism that has infiltrated the Church, and in the temporal sphere, that is, the fight against Communism and its more recent consequences, such as self-managing Socialism, Ecology, and the Cultural Revolution. |
Catholics have been known to pray both for and to the Holy Souls. In one of the writings of Archbishop Lefebvre he said that he passed on a relic of his late mother to someone who had need of supernatural help in some issue or another. This man John Armour was with the TFP for just six months, and he puts pen to paper about them. And about Professor Plinio!This is the "litany" sung as a hymn to Dona Lucilia, the mother of Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira:
About 20 years ago when Fr Schmidberger visited India he told us that some TFPers would treasure the soiled paper napkins used by Plinio's mother at receptions. 20 years later I would say that was because her goodness must have been there for all to see. Plain and simple! I would gladly have one of her napkins as a keepsake/relic.
Tradition in Action is an offshoot of the bizarre Plinio - worshiping TFP.Your information is contrary to what Guimaraes wrote above.
Guimarães worked closely with de Oviveria in Brazil’s TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he came to the U.S.
Marian T. Horvat who often edited and translated the works of Plinio began her involvement with him and TFP in 1977. She also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until 1998.
Your information is contrary to what Guimaraes wrote above.Actually Guimaraes himself often gives information contrary to what he has previously said.
The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II (http://www.traditioninaction.org/tiabk005.htm). There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations.Why are you confusing the two organisations?
2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture?
Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. ....
This is the "litany" sung as a hymn to Dona Lucilia, the mother of Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira:The Portuguese language can be very "flowery". Concerning the litany above, this line should put your mind at rest:
This hymn came into public domain when it was revealed by Prof. Orlando Fedeli, a member of TFP for over 30 years, who asked Mons. Antonio de Castro Mayer for his opinion on its orthodoxy.
Lady Lucilia, pray for us
Mother of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us
Mother of the Doctor of the Church, pray for us
Mother of our Father, pray for us
Mother of the Unspeakable, pray for us
Mother of all of us, pray for us
Mother of the coming centuries, pray for us
Mother of the Axiological Principle, pray for us
Mother of the Temperament of Synthesis, pray for us
Mother of all purity, pray for us
Mother of the Trans-sphere, pray for us
Mother of Seriousness, pray for us
Mother of the Counter-Revolution, pray for us
Restorer of Temperaments, pray for us
Source of Light, pray for us
Procreator of Innocence, pray for us
Preserver of Innocence, pray for us
Consoler of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us
Mediator of the Grand Retour, pray for us
Mediator of all our graces, pray for us
Dawn of the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us
Lady Lucilia of the smile, pray for us
Lady Lucilia of Flashes*, pray for us
Most beautiful flower of all, pray for us
Our refuge, pray for us
Our consoler, pray for us
Our help in the Bagarre, pray for us
Reason of our perseverance, pray for us
Vase of logic, pray for us
Vase of metaphysics, pray for us
Martyr of isolation, pray for us
Queen of serene suffering, pray for us
Queen of loveliness, pray for us
Queen of serenity, pray for us
Lady Lucilia, our Mother and Lady, help us
Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us
(from Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, pp. 70-71)
https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/
I have read the works of Professor Plinio Correa de Oliveria and I have to say, that his is one of the most brilliant Catholic minds this continent has ever produced. If you don't believe me, read this:
Revolution and Counter-Revolution (http://www.tfp.org/books/rcr.pdf)
(http://www.tfp.org/books/rcr.pdf)
I also have many good friends who belong to the TFP and they seem genuinely good Catholic people. They run an annual Chivalry Camp for boys, which promotes masculine virtues. Something extremely necessary in our times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=xcN6e9bKLPM
The Portuguese language can be very "flowery". Concerning the litany above, this line should put your mind at rest:Sorry, but the disgusting parody of a "litany" is so offensive that ONE line which acknowledges Our Lady fails to compensate for the adoration and praise lavished on a flawed human being and on her mentally disturbed son. Those who left the cult say they were encouraged to substitute Lucia's name for Our Lady's name in the Hail Mary, to kiss Plinio's feet, and much more. Do your research.
Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us
I repeat the question which you ignored: What has Tradition in Action to do with TFP?TIA is an offshoot of TFP. The two leaders of TIA were first involved with TFP. Guimarães brags about how closely he worked with and traveled with de Oviveria in Brazil’s TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he came to the U.S. to co-found TIA with Marian T. Horvat.
Cera, did you read the article published above?
Here is a relevant excerpt:
Why are you confusing the two organisations?
Do you understand the difference between and Offshoot and a Breakaway?
As you point out, Cera, this Litany is so absurd that it must be a spoof.How I wish that were true. I found this commentary on the “Litany” to Plinio’s mother. . .
"It is true that for a certain period some co-operators of the association used a litany with invocations to Lady Lucilia, composed by two adolescents late in 1977. This litany was forbidden by Prof. Corrêa de Oliveira as soon as he got word of it"
Hah, I called it. These two kids were undoubtedly rolling on the ground with side-splitting laughter as people read this thing. Prof. de Oliveira banned it ... having recognized it for what it was.Like you, I would love to believe that. But how to explain that its use spread to Europe in the 80s and 90s?
After I had become a Traditional Catholic, my younger brother was still at a Novus Ordo grade school. My brothers and I sat down and brainstormed a satirical parody of the Novus Ordo in an essay he was to submit for a high school scholarship. We were rolling with laughter, and tears running down our cheeks, as we filled this thing with one satirical use of Novus Ordo cliche after another. To our complete shock, he won the scholarship ... as the judges took the thing seriously and didn't see through the satire. We also authored something called, "The Community Poem" ... with which we had a lot of fun. These two kids were obviously doing the same thing with this Litany. Now, if one or another pocket of TFP folks took this thing seriously, then the kids were laughing even harder about that. They were obviously mocking Plinio and his Mother with this production ... an obvious parody of some things that the Professor was teaching.
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Dr. Plinio often prophesied that he would see the battle of Armageddon within his own lifetime. His followers were kept in a constant state of agitation, expecting this cataclysmic event at any moment.
Some militants chant a litany to Donna Lucilla, Dr. Plinio’s deceased mother, or substitute the name of Donna Lucilla for Mary and the name of Plinio for Jesus while reciting the Hail Mary.
And some SSPX types do strange things as well. Unless you have evidence that this is officially sanctioned and in wide use, you can't tar the entire group with this. There was a group called the "Heralds" in Brazil that broke off from the TFP and made their own group.Interesting that you should bring up the "Heralds of the Gospel" which are truly a breakaway group -- although all three groups originated with Mr. Plinio. This is the kind of group that gives Traditional Catholics a bad name.
Here's a lengthy article about Massimo Introvigne, including his connection to Plinio Correa de Oliveira (especially the third page of the article). I think that the author of the article is not religious at all, but he does provide some background into Introvigne and TFP, though it may contain some bias of course.From what I understand, the author was a member of an Italian branch of a Plinio-worshipping cult connected to TFP. He left the cult and has written extensively to try to help others break free or not get sucked in to it.
http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb04.htm
Plinio was randomly “breaking people's computers so that they can’t go on the internet”
From what I understand, the author was a member of an Italian branch of a Plinio-worshipping cult connected to TFP. He left the cult and has written extensively to try to help others break free or not get sucked in to it.
In your link, he says:
At least in my case, I can confirm that I have never held that I was "prevented from leaving" the organization, nor have I ever made any profit whatsoever "selling my story". By the way, I write these words myself: I do not have the funds for buying myself a ghost writer. Two journalist paid me a coffee, and one even paid me a pizza, however.
Here is his main link which is essentially a book with linked chapters, many of which are about TFP.
http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb00.htm
Quote from: Cera on May 12, 2018, 02:17:21 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/plinio-correa-de-oliveira/msg608660/#msg608660)Ladislaus, you take the words from the lips of Plinio-worshippers and falsely attribute them to me. As you well know, these crazy accusations come not from me or anyone who objects to Plinio-worship. Rather they come from your crazy Plinio-worshipping pals.
Plinio was randomly “breaking people's computers so that they can’t go on the internet”
:laugh1:
Yes, it is essentially a book. Lots of information. He sounds reasonable.I agree with you Meg. Introvigne seems to be a cult member who is trying to head off criticism of cults. The problem common to all of the Plinio-worshipping groups (Tradition, Family Property, Tradition in Action, American Needs Fatima, etc.) is their cult-like worship of their dead leader.
I first viewed that website a few years ago when trying to figure out who Introvigne is, and also CESNUR's activities. Introvigne cannot be trusted to be truthful at all. He's one scary dude. He's the head of the vampire society in Italy, and reportedly a member of the Freemasonic Grand lodge there. Introvigne was a TFP member at one time, but then left it. That doesn't mean that TFP is freemasonic at all. But it still seems to be a cult.
their cult-like worship of their dead leader
Ladislaus, you take the words from the lips of Plinio-worshippers and falsely attribute them to me.
I used to be a fan of Tradition in Action until I noticed that they have the founder of their parent organization, Tradition Family and Property all over their site, and ooze with admiration for Plinio Correa de Oliveira. Plinio taught of himself that "Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel."Makes me shudder to read the simarities between this guy and fr. Pfeiffers "seminary".
John T. Armour
I WAS A MEMBER of the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) from July 1980 until January 1981. I affiliated with the group after meeting with a TFP sympathizer in my home state of California. As a member, I lived at "the TFP seat" in Mount Kisco, New York, where I received the training and indoctrination that all members are given. I consider myself very fortunate to have been convinced by some good friends to separate from this group.
Looking back, I can now see that the TFP is a dangerous personality cult whose purpose is the glorification of its Brazilian founder, Dr. Plinio Corea de Olivera. Many highly idealistic and religiously motivated young men have been captivated by its persuasive program. The appeals to moral, dogmatic and liturgical tradition which are so refreshing in this age of turmoil are, in my opinion, simply a means to lure individuals into the cult.
During the period of training which I received, I was taught:
* Dr. Plinio will never die. When his mission on earth is fulfilled, he will walk into an earthly paradise and then ascend into heaven.
* Dr. Plinio's mission is to defeat "the revolution," the Communistic and/or demonic forces which are corrupting the human race. He is the "pilgrim of justice" sent by God for this purpose.
* Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel.
* Dr. Plinio has the power to read a man's soul in order to determine if he possesses "Tau," the vocation and quality to fight the revolution. He is even supposed to be able to make this determination from viewing a photograph. "Tau" can be found only in males.
* Members of the TFP are required to pledge their allegiance to Dr. Plinio. They make a consecration of slavery to the Blessed Mother and to Dr. Plinio. So highly regarded is Dr. Plinio that we were encouraged to kiss one of his hats that had come into our possession. And we kept a special room set aside for him where we had a special bed raised on a platform above the floor.
When I first arrived at TFP headquarters in New York, the leaders convinced me that the group was not a cult. They asked me what I had heard about the group and, after correcting minor mistaken notions I had, and after I had assured myself that I was not getting into something I would later regret being a part of, I became a member. Right away, a man was assigned to watch over me, answer my questions and keep me from knowing too much until they were sure of me. He even told me what to write in my letter to my parents. Those of us whose parents did not agree with the TFP soon found ourselves referring to our mothers and fathers as the "fountain of my revolution" (FMR). The inference was that each of us had a trace of the revolution in him, and it had been obtained as a result of the corruption and leniency of our parents. We were convinced to reject and ignore any advice from them, to see this corruption in all our family members, and to treat them accordingly. In time, I grew to despise my family. On one occasion when I was being encouraged in this attitude, I told the leaders that I had caused my mother to cry when I had talked with her by telephone. The leaders actually laughed. But, at the same time, we were urged to convince our parents that they should be proud of us because we were clean-cut gentlemen who were doing God's work.
It may seem odd that a group such as the TFP could attract and hold anyone's confidence and loyalty. But the appeal of spirituality was very strong. We all knew that something was wrong both in the world and in the Church. Here was a dedicated group living an exemplary semi-monastic life, ostensibly formed to fight the decay we knew existed. And we were young and inexperienced. I was actually convinced that I was in the Blessed Mother's special army.
The religious overtones were very heavy. We were encouraged to receive Holy Communion daily in the TFP Chapel. That it was distributed to us by a layman who was one of our own was done only out of supposed need. That need, of course, served to provide more evidence of the spread of the revolution. (A large number of hosts were consecrated three or four times a year by a visiting priest from Canada. He left them in our Chapel tabernacle.)
The converted mansion where about sixty of us lived was full of holy pictures, statues and other religious articles. We were required to pray all fifteen decades of the Rosary daily, and meditation was encouraged. Each evening, after dinner, instruction from Dr. Plinio was given to all. Most often, this instruction came via recordings; sometimes it was a printed message that was read. All messages were in the Portuguese language which was translated into English by one of the leaders.
We were led to believe that, if we left the TFP, Our Lady would chastise us because She did not want anyone to leave Her army. Many tales of terrible deaths suffered by those who left were recounted. We actually knew a Brazilian member who had been transferred to the United States, but who left the organization to get married. When he contracted a bone disease which killed him, many were pleased to learn that such justice had been delivered to a turncoat.
The atmosphere cultivated within this group is one which holds that the entire world is corrupt and only the TFP has escaped the corruption. Even traditional Catholics, such as Archbishop Lefebvre and his followers, are scorned—though never publicly.
Very few members ever attend Mass on Sundays, not because of any inability to locate a Tridentine Mass chapel, but because most do not want to go. A few do attend Mass at a nearby Byzantine Catholic Church. Members of the TFP derisively refer to faithful Catholics who do attend the Tridentine Mass as "trads." I was mocked one Sunday for reading the Mass to myself out of a missal. TFP leaders even joke about "trad" priests saying on one occasion that they would like to have one kept in the basement to be brought out when needed.
http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=773
Like you, I would love to believe that. But how to explain that its use spread to Europe in the 80s and 90s?
Also, how to explain this:
Dr. Plinio often prophesied that he would see the battle of Armageddon within his own lifetime. His followers were kept in a constant state of agitation, expecting this cataclysmic event at any moment. The warrior monks are supposed to be key participants in Armageddon and the subsequent “Reign of Mary”. This false prophet was treated a “living saint”; his followers would bow in his presence, revere his personal belongings and compose hymns honoring him and his mother. Some militants chant a litany to Donna Lucilla, Dr. Plinio’s deceased mother, or substitute the name of Donna Lucilla for Mary and the name of Plinio for Jesus while reciting the Hail Mary.
https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/
So why isn't the SSPX guilty of a "cult-like worship of their dead leader"?Because Plinio worshippers make the blasphemous statement "Let it no longer be I who live, but rather Plinio who lives in me."
Ridiculous. This was simply referencing your POST and is not attributed to you. Everybody who's been around an online forum knows this. And I was laughing at the image of a ghostly Plinio going around breaking computers.At least we had a great laugh together Ladislaus. I too was laughing, but also sad, to think that the Plinio worshippers attribute such powers to their dead leader. You say "I can assure you that none of them worship Plinio."
So now my TFP acquaintances are my "Plinio-worshipping pals" (that IS a direct quote from you)? I can assure you that none of them worship Plinio.
Have you explained yet why you have such a bitter animosity against TFP? You're clearly on some kind of crusade and are out to get them.
The root of this TFP problem is that all of the members undergo louis de montfort slavery consecrations, which is diabolical marian exploitation.
How then, do you explain the video posted here that has the leader of "Heralds of the Gospel" saying "It is no longer I who live but Plinio who lives in me"?
You do know, right, that the Heralds is a nutjob spinoff group that have largely pushed TFP out of South America? I've heard TFP members complaining about them and denouncing them as a nutty cult.Plinio-worship is the central problem of all the groups that have grown out of TFP. When you first brought up Heralds of the Gospel, I clearly stated that they are a spin-off group. I agree with you that it's nutty to say that their dead leader Plinio is "causing global warming" and so on. Worse than that are their sacreligious statements such as "It is no longer I who live but rather Plinio in me who lives." This is not Catholic.