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Author Topic: Plinio Correa de Oliveira  (Read 5984 times)

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Offline Cera

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Plinio Correa de Oliveira
« on: May 05, 2018, 05:55:37 PM »
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  • I used to be a fan of Tradition in Action until I noticed that they have the founder of their parent organization, Tradition Family and Property all over their site, and ooze with admiration for Plinio Correa de Oliveira. Plinio taught of himself that "Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel."

    John T. Armour
    I WAS A MEMBER of the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) from July 1980 until January 1981. I affiliated with the group after meeting with a TFP sympathizer in my home state of California. As a member, I lived at "the TFP seat" in Mount Kisco, New York, where I received the training and indoctrination that all members are given. I consider myself very fortunate to have been convinced by some good friends to separate from this group.
       Looking back, I can now see that the TFP is a dangerous personality cult whose purpose is the glorification of its Brazilian founder, Dr. Plinio Corea de Olivera. Many highly idealistic and religiously motivated young men have been captivated by its persuasive program. The appeals to moral, dogmatic and liturgical tradition which are so refreshing in this age of turmoil are, in my opinion, simply a means to lure individuals into the cult.

    During the period of training which I received, I was taught:

       *  Dr. Plinio will never die. When his mission on earth is fulfilled, he will walk into an earthly paradise and then ascend into heaven.

       *  Dr. Plinio's mission is to defeat "the revolution," the Communistic and/or demonic forces which are corrupting the human race. He is the "pilgrim of justice" sent by God for this purpose.

       *  Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel.

       *  Dr. Plinio has the power to read a man's soul in order to determine if he possesses "Tau," the vocation and quality to fight the revolution. He is even supposed to be able to make this determination from viewing a photograph. "Tau" can be found only in males.

       * Members of the TFP are required to pledge their allegiance to Dr. Plinio. They make a consecration of slavery to the Blessed Mother and to Dr. Plinio. So highly regarded is Dr. Plinio that we were encouraged to kiss one of his hats that had come into our possession. And we kept a special room set aside for him where we had a special bed raised on a platform above the floor.
       When I first arrived at TFP headquarters in New York, the leaders convinced me that the group was not a cult. They asked me what I had heard about the group and, after correcting minor mistaken notions I had, and after I had assured myself that I was not getting into something I would later regret being a part of, I became a member. Right away, a man was assigned to watch over me, answer my questions and keep me from knowing too much until they were sure of me. He even told me what to write in my letter to my parents. Those of us whose parents did not agree with the TFP soon found ourselves referring to our mothers and fathers as the "fountain of my revolution" (FMR). The inference was that each of us had a trace of the revolution in him, and it had been obtained as a result of the corruption and leniency of our parents. We were convinced to reject and ignore any advice from them, to see this corruption in all our family members, and to treat them accordingly. In time, I grew to despise my family. On one occasion when I was being encouraged in this attitude, I told the leaders that I had caused my mother to cry when I had talked with her by telephone. The leaders actually laughed. But, at the same time, we were urged to convince our parents that they should be proud of us because we were clean-cut gentlemen who were doing God's work.
       It may seem odd that a group such as the TFP could attract and hold anyone's confidence and loyalty. But the appeal of spirituality was very strong. We all knew that something was wrong both in the world and in the Church. Here was a dedicated group living an exemplary semi-monastic life, ostensibly formed to fight the decay we knew existed. And we were young and inexperienced. I was actually convinced that I was in the Blessed Mother's special army.
       The religious overtones were very heavy. We were encouraged to receive Holy Communion daily in the TFP Chapel. That it was distributed to us by a layman who was one of our own was done only out of supposed need. That need, of course, served to provide more evidence of the spread of the revolution. (A large number of hosts were consecrated three or four times a year by a visiting priest from Canada. He left them in our Chapel tabernacle.)
       The converted mansion where about sixty of us lived was full of holy pictures, statues and other religious articles. We were required to pray all fifteen decades of the Rosary daily, and meditation was encouraged. Each evening, after dinner, instruction from Dr. Plinio was given to all. Most often, this instruction came via recordings; sometimes it was a printed message that was read. All messages were in the Portuguese language which was translated into English by one of the leaders.
       We were led to believe that, if we left the TFP, Our Lady would chastise us because She did not want anyone to leave Her army. Many tales of terrible deaths suffered by those who left were recounted. We actually knew a Brazilian member who had been transferred to the United States, but who left the organization to get married. When he contracted a bone disease which killed him, many were pleased to learn that such justice had been delivered to a turncoat.
       The atmosphere cultivated within this group is one which holds that the entire world is corrupt and only the TFP has escaped the corruption. Even traditional Catholics, such as Archbishop Lefebvre and his followers, are scorned—though never publicly.
       Very few members ever attend Mass on Sundays, not because of any inability to locate a Tridentine Mass chapel, but because most do not want to go. A few do attend Mass at a nearby Byzantine Catholic Church. Members of the TFP derisively refer to faithful Catholics who do attend the Tridentine Mass as "trads." I was mocked one Sunday for reading the Mass to myself out of a missal. TFP leaders even joke about "trad" priests saying on one occasion that they would like to have one kept in the basement to be brought out when needed.
     
    http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=773
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 06:13:30 PM »
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  • John Armour's article is also here:
    https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/

    along with the "Litany" to the mother of Plinio.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 06:36:53 PM »
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  • What has Tradition in Action to do with TFP?

    http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A004_tfp.htm
    Questions about the Past and Present Day
    Relations between TIA and TFP

    TIA has received many questions from its supporters and readers
    regarding its links to TFP. It was judged opportune to address
    these questions here as an ensemble.

    1. Question: Was there ever any relationship between TIA – Tradition in Action – and TFP – Tradition, Family and Property?

    Answer: As for the two organizations, there were few links from the past because TIA is much more recent than TFP. TIA’s public life started after 1995, the year of the death of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.

    Some of the members of TIA, however, did have past links with TFP. Mr. Atila S. Guimarães was an associate of the Brazilian TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he was excluded from the board of the organization. Dr. Marian T. Horvat also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until approximately the same time.

    The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations.

    2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture?

    Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. That antagonism was translated into two facts:


    • A.S. Guimarães decided to publish the first book of his collection on Vatican Council II, and the American edition was launched in November 1997 under the responsibility of TIA.
    • The new president of the Brazilian TFP wrote a letter some days later demanding that Guimarães remove the book from circulation. He gave two basic reasons: first, according to him Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira did not want to publish the collection on the Council in our days, and second, the Brazilian TFP board of directors also did not want to publish it.
    3. Question: Were these arguments correct?


    Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, left, edits the Portuguese text of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. Atila Sinke Guimarães, at right, takes note of the corrections. They are working in front of a small statue of Our Lady of Good Success.
    Answer: No and yes. No, the first argument is not correct, because Prof. Plinio did want to publish the collection on Vatican II to try to change the present day religious situation. Yes, the second reason is correct, because the directors of the Brazilian TFP positively did not want to publish it.

    4. Question: Is it possible to be more specific about the intentions of Prof. Plinio?

    Answer: Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira invited A.S. Guimarães to write the collection on the Council and gave him the necessary intellectual and material assistance to do so from 1982 until 1995 when he died, that is, for all the years it took the author to write and edit the 11 volumes. During this time, Prof. Plinio also spoke to him about his plans for the future of the collection. The author gave some of those guidelines in the introduction of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II.

    In November 1997, after Guimarães received the ultimatum demanding that he remove the book from circulation, he responded by writing a long answer (266 pages) addressing the objections presented by the Brazilian TFP president. In that defense he reproduced innumerable texts in which Prof. Plinio supported and stimulated not only the writing of the collection, but also its publication as soon as possible. Guimarães had tape-recorded and typed many of the meetings in which he received this orientation directly from Prof. Plinio.

    After he finished writing his defense in March 1998, Guimarães asked two witnesses to deliver the work to the TFP president, which was done. He also printed 500 copies of this docuмent and tried to spread it among TFP members. Since the letter condemning him had been widely circulated within the TFP, it seemed fair that the members should know the refutation to it. To this day there has been no response from the directors to the defense. Further, they forbade the members to read it, and have continued to spread the fabrication that Prof. Plinio did not want to publish Guimarães’ books on the Council.

    5. Question: Why did the Brazilian president of TFP and its board of directors try to forbid Guimarães from publishing his book in 1997?

    Answer: In several discussions with the author prior to the ultimatum, the directors avowed that as they were intellectually unprepared to face a public polemic with the religious authority, they did not want to stir up any waters. Even if one sets aside the truth of the first statement, the decision to avoid a public polemic, which in effect meant deserting the battlefront, raised a grave moral problem. Many times in History, Catholics with inferior means have been called to face enemies with superior resources. They did not run away from the fight. They had the courage to face the enemy and trusted in Divine Providence to give them assistance to win.

    In the case of the TFP and the fight against Progressivism in the Church the same principle should be applied. Therefore, what was condemnable in the attitude of the directors was that they lacked courage to continue the struggle, and lacked faith in Divine Providence to fill the vacuum created by their own deficient preparation for the situation.

    There was, in addition, another important reason why those directors did not want to enter into any polemic with the religious authority, a reason that Guimarães learned of two years after its occurrence. This was the existence of a clear-cut compromise made between the TFP directors and the ecclesiastic structure, by which they committed to refrain from any public discussion on Vatican II and the reforms that came from it. The directors sent a letter containing this promise to the Cardinal Primate of Brazil, then Cardinal Lucas Moreira Neves, giving him the guarantee that the TFP would no longer combat Vatican II and its consequences.

    6. Question: Is it possible to know the content of this letter?

    Answer: Yes, it is. Guimarães reproduced the main parts of it in his defense. These parts will be posted below.

    The letter was dated September 18, 1995. It was written and sent without the consent of Prof. Plinio, who was in the hospital and died two weeks later on October 3, 1995. The pretext for the letter was to clarify some points for Cardinal Moreira Neves, who days before had attacked TFP as opposed to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. The letter was signed by Canon José Luiz Villac, an ecclesiastic who was chosen to represent the directors in the agreement. In the docuмent, he speaks, in fact, as a representative of the directors and the whole organization. The letter was delivered, but the agreement was kept quiet. Only a handful of persons knew about its existence. The great majority of TFP members did not know about this official compromise of the directorate then, and perhaps they are still unaware of it today.

    Here are the more important excerpts:

    Quote
    “The words of Your Eminence that ‘the TFP does not hide its opposition to Vatican Council II ... and takes a critical attitude in relation to the Mass of Paul VI in favor of that of St. Pius V,’ also contains erroneous information.

    “The attitude of those who belong to the TFP toward Vatican Council II and the Mass of Paul VI is quite nuanced. With regard to the latter, the TFP always has maintained a discrete position, and does not want to make public certain theological difficulties raised by the Novus Ordo Missae. It is waiting for a full elucidation of the subject from the supreme authority of the Church.

    “In face of the very grave problems that afflict the Church in our days - so often mentioned by H.H. John Paul II - this is the position, Your Eminence, of the great majority of the members, supporters and correspondents of the TFP:
    • “They admit that they are perplexed over certain reforms and certain events that have taken place in the Church since the pontificate of John XXIII;
    • “This perplexity is defined as a non-comprehension and an uneasiness;
    • “This perplexity is not an affirmation that there is error in these events and these reforms, and it is also not an affirmation that there is not error. Those who make up the TFP, even if they are instructed Catholics, declare themselves incapable of resolving all the very complex theological, moral, canonical and liturgical questions that are at the root of this uneasiness.
    “In view of this, they are trying to accompany the debates over these questions that surge here and there in the ecclesiastical sphere, waiting for the matter to be duly clarified.

    “While they wait for this clarification, they adhere entirely to the terms set out by Pope John Paul II in his Apostolic Letter Ecclesia Dei, and that are contained in the protocol that various traditionalist groups have signed with the Vatican [which affirms]: ‘With regard to some doctrines taught by Vatican Council II, or with regard to later reforms, liturgical or of Canon Law, that can seem difficult to reconcile with declarations of the previous Magisterium, I assume the obligation of maintaining a positive attitude of study and communication with the Apostolic See, avoiding any polemic.’

    “I pledge my word as a priest to guarantee Your Eminence that this balanced and conciliatory attitude has always been adopted by those who belong to the TFP, and that they have no intention of abandoning it.”
    From the time the letter was written until today, all the practical evidence indicates that the TFP is keeping its side of that bargain, maintaining a position of non-militancy in face of the infiltration of Progressivism in the Catholic Hierarchy.

    In contrast, TIA is assuming a position of active fight and public resistance.

    7. Question: Is it true that under Prof. Plinio’s presidency, the TFP always took a “discrete position” and a “balanced and conciliatory attitude” toward Vatican II and its reforms as affirmed in the letter


    At the airport, Prof. Plinio, left, leaves Rome after the first session of Vatican II
    Answer: No, it is not true. He was one of the first leaders of the Resistance against the novelties that came from Vatican II. During the whole first session of the Council (1962) he was in Rome following the debates. When he perceived that the progressivist wing was trying to protect Communism, he wrote the essay The Freedom of the Church in a Communist State, which was first written to be spread among the conciliar Fathers and helped to stimulate the petition that hundreds of Bishops signed asking the Pope for a solemn condemnation of Communism in the Council. Cardinal Giuseppe Pizzardo and Archbishop Dino Staffa, respectively Prefect and Secretary of the Congregation of Seminars and Universities, who were expressive figures of the conservative wing of Prelates at Vatican II, wrote a letter praising this work of Prof. Plinio and recognizing its importance.

    Another work of Prof. Plinio was on the topic of dialogue and ecuмenism – Unperceived Ideological Transshipment and Dialogue. It was published in 1965 during the fourth and last session of Vatican II. The more profound purpose of this book was to break the spell of the dialogue launched simultaneously by John XXIII and Communist leaders to encourage an atmosphere of mutual collaboration between Catholics and Communists. The dangerous emotional climate created by ecuмenism with false religions was also pointed out in the book to de-mythify the fad for dialogue that was rapidly gaining ground in the Catholic religious milieu.

    In 1970 and 1971 he wrote forceful articles against the indirect support Paul VI gave to the installment of Communism in Chile. In 1971 he clearly and publicly declared that the conciliar Popes should not be followed should they teach against private property or try to destroy the “Constantine Church.” He also clearly criticized Vatican II for not having condemned Communism. In 1974 he wrote his famous Declaration of Resistance against the Vatican policy of Ostpolitik. In that same year, from April to December, he wrote a series of articles showing different aspects of his Resistance to some of the Vatican positions. TIA plans to post some of these invaluable pieces on its website.

    With regard to the new Mass, it was Prof. Plinio who invited a Brazilian scholar – Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira – to make a careful study about the Protestant tendency of the Novus Ordo and the eventuality of a Pope falling into heresy and schism, as well as a study to know when ecclesiastical laws are infallible. This scholar wrote a book on these topics, and Prof. Plinio took the initiative to publish this work in 1970. Afterward he sent it to all of the more than 300 Brazilian Bishops, with the approval of and a letter of recommendation by Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer. Prof. Plinio also encouraged the author to publish the book in French (1975), which was done. During his lifetime TFP members were not allowed to attend the new Mass.

    In 1982 he invited Atila Guimarães to write his collection on Vatican II, and planned to publish it around the end of 1995. He died before that.

    Many other similar actions could be listed here. What the facts clearly show is that the position of Prof. Plinio regarding Vatican II and the new Mass in no way can be considered “discrete” or “conciliatory.”

    8. Question: Would you describe the general lines of TFP, and explain how they differ from those of TIA?

    Answer: Until Prof. Plinio’s death, TFP was well known for being in the front line of the anti-Progressivist and anti-Communist fights. After his death, one might say that the organization rolled up its standards and abandoned these battles.

    With regard to Progressivism, today TFP restrains its combat to skirmishes with several radical progressivists, leaving free ground to the non-radical enemies who have infiltrated the Church to continue their plan of destruction. It was these same subtle enemies who in times past TFP used to denounce. Before Prof. Plinio’s death TFP used to be a scourge of the progressivist and concessive Bishops; today it has become a sycophant of them. Its fight against Progressivism has been replaced by some few other actions – against abortion and blasphemous films. Laudable actions, without a doubt. But lacking any special risk, they no longer constitute the audacious fight that characterized the entity in times past.

    Regarding the anti-Communist fight, the organization made no significant action to prevent the election of Lula, a Communist, as president of Brazil. It made no serious denunciation of the strong support the Catholic Hierarchy gave him, which brought him to power. Again, the organization that under Prof Plinio’s presidency had prevented Lula from being elected several times, did practically nothing to stop his election in October 2002. The other actions of TFP against Communism consist of small scuffles turned to particular points trying to keep the day-to-day bourgeois establishment working. Certainly they are not bad actions, but they are drastically insufficient. The present day TFP members seem like sailors obstinately trying to maintain the day-to-day order on a Titanic that is sinking.

    Regarding the general mentality reigning in the organization, it is sad to consider the change: the abandonment of grandeur and the embracing of mediocrity.

    These certainly are not the lines of TIA. We try to remain faithful to the militant and counter-revolutionary orientation of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira both in the religious sphere, that is, the fight against Progressivism that has infiltrated the Church, and in the temporal sphere, that is, the fight against Communism and its more recent consequences, such as self-managing Socialism, Ecology, and the Cultural Revolution.
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    Offline AJNC

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #3 on: May 07, 2018, 01:50:48 AM »
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  • Catholics have been known to pray both for and to the Holy Souls. In one of the writings of Archbishop Lefebvre he said that he passed on a relic of his late mother to someone who had need of supernatural help in some issue or another. This man John Armour was with the TFP for just six months, and he puts pen to paper about them. And about Professor Plinio!
    About 20 years ago when Fr Schmidberger visited India he told us that some TFPers would treasure the soiled paper napkins used by Plinio's mother at receptions. 20 years later I would say that was because her goodness must have been there for all to see. Plain and simple! I would gladly have one of her napkins as a keepsake/relic.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 12:54:56 PM »
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  • Tradition in Action is an offshoot of the bizarre Plinio - worshiping TFP.

    Guimarães worked closely with de Oviveria in Brazil’s TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he came to the U.S.

    Marian T. Horvat who often edited and translated the works of Plinio began her involvement with him and TFP in 1977. She also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until 1998.

    Other offshoots of the TFP cult include:
    America Needs Fatima
    TFP Student Action
    Heralds of the Gospel
    Foundation for Christian Civilization
    American TFP, headed by John Hovart II, Pennsylvania.
    The St. Louis de Montfort Academy: Pennsylvania boarding school for boys grades 7 - 12.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 12:58:14 PM »
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  • Catholics have been known to pray both for and to the Holy Souls. In one of the writings of Archbishop Lefebvre he said that he passed on a relic of his late mother to someone who had need of supernatural help in some issue or another. This man John Armour was with the TFP for just six months, and he puts pen to paper about them. And about Professor Plinio!
    About 20 years ago when Fr Schmidberger visited India he told us that some TFPers would treasure the soiled paper napkins used by Plinio's mother at receptions. 20 years later I would say that was because her goodness must have been there for all to see. Plain and simple! I would gladly have one of her napkins as a keepsake/relic.
    This is the "litany" sung as a hymn to Dona Lucilia, the mother of Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira:
        This hymn came into public domain when it was revealed by Prof. Orlando Fedeli, a member of TFP for over 30 years, who asked Mons. Antonio de Castro Mayer for his opinion on its orthodoxy.
    Lady Lucilia, pray for us 
    Mother of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us 
    Mother of the Doctor of the Church, pray for us 
    Mother of our Father, pray for us 
    Mother of the Unspeakable, pray for us 
    Mother of all of us, pray for us 
    Mother of the coming centuries, pray for us 
    Mother of the Axiological Principle, pray for us 
    Mother of the Temperament of Synthesis, pray for us 
    Mother of all purity, pray for us 
    Mother of the Trans-sphere, pray for us 
    Mother of Seriousness, pray for us 
    Mother of the Counter-Revolution, pray for us 
    Restorer of Temperaments, pray for us 
    Source of Light, pray for us 
    Procreator of Innocence, pray for us 
    Preserver of Innocence, pray for us 
    Consoler of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us 
    Mediator of the Grand Retour, pray for us 
    Mediator of all our graces, pray for us 
    Dawn of the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us 
    Lady Lucilia of the smile, pray for us 
    Lady Lucilia of Flashes*, pray for us 
    Most beautiful flower of all, pray for us 
    Our refuge, pray for us 
    Our consoler, pray for us 
    Our help in the Bagarre, pray for us 
    Reason of our perseverance, pray for us 
    Vase of logic, pray for us 
    Vase of metaphysics, pray for us 
    Martyr of isolation, pray for us 
    Queen of serene suffering, pray for us 
    Queen of loveliness, pray for us 
    Queen of serenity, pray for us 
    Lady Lucilia, our Mother and Lady, help us 
    Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us 
    (from Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, pp. 70-71)
    https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 01:10:41 PM »
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  • Tradition in Action is an offshoot of the bizarre Plinio - worshiping TFP.

    Guimarães worked closely with de Oviveria in Brazil’s TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he came to the U.S.

    Marian T. Horvat who often edited and translated the works of Plinio began her involvement with him and TFP in 1977. She also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until 1998.
    Your information is contrary to what Guimaraes wrote above.  
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 01:48:58 PM »
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  • I've known many TFP folks, including their leadership, and there's no sign of any cultlike behavior in them; they come across as very conservative Novus Ordites.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 02:28:05 PM »
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  • Your information is contrary to what Guimaraes wrote above.  
    Actually Guimaraes himself often gives information contrary to what he has previously said.

    On his own website
    http://traditioninaction.org/Collection/Bios/BioAtilaS.htm

    Guimaraes says of himself:

    This prolific writer was born in Rio de Janiero and tutored by his esteemed mentor Professor Plinio Correa de Oliveira for many years. Both Atila and his mentor spent many years in studies and researches, which included several trips to Europe and other countries of South America.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 05:29:32 PM »
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  • I repeat the question which you ignored: What has Tradition in Action  to do with TFP?

    Cera, did you read the article published above?

    Here is a relevant excerpt:

    Quote
    The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations.

    2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture?

    Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. ....
    Why are you confusing the two organisations?
    Do you understand the difference between and Offshoot and a Breakaway?
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline AJNC

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #10 on: May 07, 2018, 09:36:23 PM »
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  • This is the "litany" sung as a hymn to Dona Lucilia, the mother of Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira:
        This hymn came into public domain when it was revealed by Prof. Orlando Fedeli, a member of TFP for over 30 years, who asked Mons. Antonio de Castro Mayer for his opinion on its orthodoxy.
    Lady Lucilia, pray for us  
    Mother of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us  
    Mother of the Doctor of the Church, pray for us  
    Mother of our Father, pray for us  
    Mother of the Unspeakable, pray for us  
    Mother of all of us, pray for us  
    Mother of the coming centuries, pray for us  
    Mother of the Axiological Principle, pray for us  
    Mother of the Temperament of Synthesis, pray for us  
    Mother of all purity, pray for us  
    Mother of the Trans-sphere, pray for us  
    Mother of Seriousness, pray for us  
    Mother of the Counter-Revolution, pray for us  
    Restorer of Temperaments, pray for us  
    Source of Light, pray for us  
    Procreator of Innocence, pray for us  
    Preserver of Innocence, pray for us  
    Consoler of Mister Doctor Plinio, pray for us  
    Mediator of the Grand Retour, pray for us  
    Mediator of all our graces, pray for us  
    Dawn of the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us  
    Lady Lucilia of the smile, pray for us  
    Lady Lucilia of Flashes*, pray for us  
    Most beautiful flower of all, pray for us  
    Our refuge, pray for us  
    Our consoler, pray for us  
    Our help in the Bagarre, pray for us  
    Reason of our perseverance, pray for us  
    Vase of logic, pray for us  
    Vase of metaphysics, pray for us  
    Martyr of isolation, pray for us  
    Queen of serene suffering, pray for us  
    Queen of loveliness, pray for us  
    Queen of serenity, pray for us  
    Lady Lucilia, our Mother and Lady, help us  
    Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us  
    (from Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, pp. 70-71)
    https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/
    The Portuguese language can be very "flowery". Concerning the litany above, this line should put your mind at rest:
    Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us 


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 10:48:29 PM »
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  • I have read the works of Professor Plinio Correa de Oliveria and I have to say, that his is one of the most brilliant Catholic minds this continent has ever produced. If you don't believe me, read this:

    Revolution and Counter-Revolution

    I also have many good friends who belong to the TFP and they seem genuinely good Catholic people. They run an annual Chivalry Camp for boys, which promotes masculine virtues. Something extremely necessary in our times.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=xcN6e9bKLPM

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 08:27:37 AM »
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  • I have read the works of Professor Plinio Correa de Oliveria and I have to say, that his is one of the most brilliant Catholic minds this continent has ever produced. If you don't believe me, read this:

    Revolution and Counter-Revolution

    I also have many good friends who belong to the TFP and they seem genuinely good Catholic people. They run an annual Chivalry Camp for boys, which promotes masculine virtues. Something extremely necessary in our times.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=xcN6e9bKLPM

    Agreed.  Now, did some cult-like qualities at one point creep into the organization?  Perhaps, but I have no experience that would suggest this is something ongoing with the group in the U.S. at this present time.

    That Litany to Plinio's Mother sounds like a satirical spoof put together by some students (young men) who were trying to be smart-asses.  As such, some of the lines are borderline hilarious.

    "Mother of the Axiological Principle" ...  :laugh1:  That's probably something that Plinio taught that the students were making fun of.

    "Mother of the Trans-sphere" ...  :laugh1:.

    I know some students at their boys' school in PA, and this would be just like them to spoof something like that up.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 03:37:33 PM »
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  • The Portuguese language can be very "flowery". Concerning the litany above, this line should put your mind at rest:
    Lady Lucilia, our greatest mediator before the Virgin, help us  
    Sorry, but the disgusting parody of a "litany" is so offensive that ONE line which acknowledges Our Lady fails to compensate for the  adoration and praise lavished on a flawed human being and on her mentally disturbed son. Those who left the cult say they were encouraged to substitute Lucia's name for Our Lady's name in the Hail Mary, to kiss Plinio's feet, and much more. Do your research.

    Think about this so-called "Litany" which spread throughout Europe.

    Since Plinio was in no way a "Doctor of the Church," how dare they call his mother "Mother of the Doctor of the Church."

    Catholics call God Our Father, we do not call a cult leader's mother
    "Mother of our Father." 

    Catholics call Mary our Mother, we do not call a cult leader's mother
    "Mother of all of us."

    Catholics know that the Immaculate Heart of Mary will triumph; it's just wrong to call Plinio's mother the "Mother of the coming centuries."

    To call Plinio's mother the "Mother of the Axiological Principle" is to say that she is the mother of the First Cause.
     
    To Catholics, Mary is the Mother of all purity, not Plinio's mother.
     
    To Catholics, Jesus is the Light of the World, not Plinio and his mom, as implied in
    calling Lucia "Source of Light." 

    Catholics devoted to Our Lady are offended by Plinio encouraging his followers to worship himself and his mother by usurping titles which belong to Mary or in some cases to Our Lord.
    Procreator of Innocence? 
    Preserver of Innocence? 
    Mediator of all our graces? 
    Our refuge? 
    Queen of serenity? 
    Lady Lucilia, our Mother and Lady, help us 

    If anyone calling himself or herself Catholic is not offended by this, they need to stop praying to a false goddess and pray instead to Jesus and His Mother.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    « Reply #14 on: May 08, 2018, 04:08:43 PM »
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  • I repeat the question which you ignored: What has Tradition in Action  to do with TFP?

    Cera, did you read the article published above?

    Here is a relevant excerpt:
    Why are you confusing the two organisations?
    Do you understand the difference between and Offshoot and a Breakaway?
    TIA is an offshoot of TFP. The two leaders of TIA were first involved with TFP. Guimarães brags about how closely he worked with and traveled with de Oviveria in Brazil’s TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he came to the U.S. to co-found TIA with Marian T. Horvat.
    Horvart's brother John Horvat heads up the U.S. branch of TFP headquartered in Pennsylvania. Marian is proud of the fact that she often edited and translated the works of Plinio, including his disgusting book "Nobility and Analogous Traditional Elites" (which teaches the opposite of what Jesus taught -- to despise the poor and to have a "preferential option" for the rich.)
    She began working with Plinio and TFP in 1977. She also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until 1998 until she and Guimarães started TIA in 1999.
    Yes, I have read Guimarães' cover story of himself about what a hero he is and what persecution he has suffered. It is a theme that runs through many of their cover stories. To get a full picture of a cult, one must read the first-person accounts of those who were able to get out, some after a few years and others after 30 years of cult involvement. For starters, read the OP.
    Yes, I understand the difference between an offshoot and a breakaway. Which one are you calling TIA? In Christian charity, I beg you to go to a search engine and put in "Tradition and Action" and "Plinio" and see how much they look up to him as their founder and spiritual leader.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary