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Author Topic: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story  (Read 5288 times)

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Offline Cera

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Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2019, 04:39:26 PM »
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  • .
    The minions of the devil don't need any human organization to tell them what to do because the devil puts ideas into their minds.
    ..
    ... Public demonstrations against blasphemies such as profanation of images of Our Lady and Our Lord,
    outspoken opposition to abortion and the overt practice of satanism such as in Oklahoma City recently as well as elsewhere,
    against the showing of movies that are inimical to the true Faith of Catholics and immoral legislation... etc...
    .
    In many ways the TFP has picked up where the League of Decency left off, and that was 50 years ago!
    .
    Perhaps it would be prudent for Cera to seek the services of a good exorcist.
    Neil, I forgive your lack of charity and will pray for you.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #31 on: April 03, 2019, 08:02:38 PM »
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  • Neil, I forgive your lack of charity and will pray for you.
    It's good you pray for Neil, seeing he has posted here since 30th January. I miss you, Neil. Where are you?
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline CestMoiJeanneMarie

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #32 on: April 11, 2019, 12:31:00 PM »
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  • I think it's very interesting to see how this thread filled with supposed "exposés" about Plinio Correa de Oliveira (as well as the thread on "Atila and the TFP") appeared after Atila Guimaraes published his article on the SSPX Agent Liboro in Quito.
      
     Why divert attention? The practical aim of all of these "exposés" (by Cera and other SSPX followers) is to divert attention from the actual issue at hand. This is equivalent of throwing sand in the opponent's eyes to have time to flee and not be noticed.
      
     Let's actually get back to the heart of the matter. SSPX/Vox Catholica/Fr. Purdy have not responded to any of TIA's claims about them. Why don't they just come out and refute them? The more you attack Guimaraes and Oliveira personally, the more it shows that SSPX doesn't have a defense to present. 

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #33 on: April 11, 2019, 07:37:08 PM »
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  • I think it's very interesting to see how this thread filled with supposed "exposés" about Plinio Correa de Oliveira (as well as the thread on "Atila and the TFP") appeared after Atila Guimaraes published his article on the SSPX Agent Liboro in Quito.
      
    Check your facts. This letter on CI was in 2014. Bishop Mayer is consoling a mother who, like so many others, lost her son to the TFP Plinio- worshiing cult.
    SSPX and the TFP
    « Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 07:33:39 PM »

    Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Quote
    Quote
    This letter was published in the Campos daily, La Folha de Manhà in 1991; the original text, however, is dated 1984, two years after Bishop de Castro Mayer's break with TFP. It appeared in Le Sel de la Terre, [no. 28, Spring 1999], in an article entitled, "Docuмents sur la T.F.P".

    Dear XXXXX,
    I owe a response to your grieving letter of September 24, which, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25.

    In this case, I can only offer the sole advice: pray, pray much, above all the Rosary or at least the five decades of the Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten your son and make him see that TFP is an heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write it, TFP lives and behaves in accord with a principle which fundamentally undermines the truth of Christianity, that is, of the Catholic Church.

    In fact, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church------destined to maintain on earth the true worship of God and to lead souls toward eternal salvation---as an unequal society, composed of two classes: one which governs, teaches and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and the other---the faithful---who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified. This is a de fide dogma.

    St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its very nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flocks, those who belong to the various ranks of the Hierarachy and the faithful multitude. These two orders are so completely distinct that the Hierarchy alone has the right and authority to guide and govern the members to the Church's ends, while the duty of the faithful is that of allowing themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the way given by the governing class (The Encyclical, "Vehementer", February 11, 1906) [7].

    And the entire history of the Church, as can be seen in the New Testament, attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was to the Apostles only that Jesus said: “Go and teach all nations”. Too, the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times following Jesus Christ. Because of this, it is an heretical subversion to habitually follow a lay person, ---therefore, not a member of the Hierarchy--- as the spokesman of orthodoxy. Thus, they do not look to what the Church says, what the Bishops say, rather what this or that one says.... Nor does it end there: this attitude------even if not openly avowed---actually positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a subtle but real mistrust of the hierarchy and of the clergy in general.

    There is a visceral anticlericalism in TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is prejudicially received. Basically, it holds that all priests are ignorant, not very zealous or interesting, and have other such qualities. Well, then, keeping in mind the divine Constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, TFP's habitual anti-clericalism, latent, makes it an heretical sect, and therefore, as I have said, is animated by a principle contrary to the dogma established by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.

    Nevertheless, TFP had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution of the apostolate carried out by the bi-weekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecelia, titled, O Legionario. As a serious and well intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of that Congregation and, consequently, of the bi-weekly’s readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. That was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I accompanied and approved its apostolate, also when it began to stray into an anticlerical spirit, which began by its consolidating its position and then reversing it by putting the clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman, with his monopoly on orthodoxy. Perhaps I gave it support beyond a licit point. I retracted it only when it became clear to me that my warnings were not being taken into consideration. They had become useless.

    It is just to observe that the straying of certain members of the hierarchy, ....explains the “TFPistas'" scandal, but it doesn't justify the positions they came to take. Even less so, those of their leader, Plinio.

    At this time, as I said at the beginning of this letter, the remedy is prayer. First, because without prayer nothing is obtained: “Ask,“ Our Lord says, “and you shall receive.” It is necessary to pray, because charismatic fervor produces a certain fanaticism: individuals become incapable of seeing objective reality, of perceiving even fundamental errors, because of this inversion of following a lay person instead of the legitimate Shepherds of the Holy Church. So much moreso when, as I have observed, members of the Hierarchy unfortunately and frequently utter words and take positions which any Catholic can see are dissonant from doctrine and from the guidance of the Church of the ages.....

    I ask Our Lord that he grant you, and your entire family, a holy and happy Christmas and many years filled with God's grace.
    I ask that you pray for me, Servant in Christ-Jesus,
    Antonio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos

    [Thanks to Suzanne Rini for the translation]



    This pretty much spells it out, but also these links are very valuable to look at.

    Quote
    Quote
    TFP "anti-cult" front-group, CESNUR

    TFP Meets with Problems
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb14.htm

    The CESNUR critical page
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/eng.htm

    The CESNUR case
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/ces2.htm

    The Secret Story of a Cult Apologist:
    Massimo Introvigne, CESNUR and the Brazilian right-wing organization, "Tradition, Family and Property" (T.F.P.)
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb00.htm

    CESNUR's Director, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and TFP
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/sod0_i.htm

    Introvigne's Role in Plinio's War on the "Anti-Cult Movement"
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb19.htm



    TFP is a cult.


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    Offline CestMoiJeanneMarie

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #34 on: April 12, 2019, 12:54:47 PM »
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  • All of these Plinio-worshipping/occult claims (which for some reason was recently "resurrected" in this thread in recent days) were disproven by Atila 35 years ago, when he published two books refuting them. Moreover, it is interesting that all of a sudden, you are raising up dust from 35 years ago, precisely when Atila put out his articles exposing the recent dishonest activities of SSPX/Fr. Purdy/Vox Catholica. Again, more sand in the eyes to have time to flee - this shows bad faith on your part.
     
    Why all of the diversions? Here is the current issue at hand: Atila showed that Fr. Purdy - the self-proclaimed expert on the best translation of the Spanish devotion to Our Lady of Good Success - does not speak Spanish. Atila also showed that the docuмent put out by the nuns (which curiously has the same flavor of Fr. Purdy's sermons in Quito) made a serious mistake when it declared that the important feast of Feb. 2 is the Presentation (not the Purification). This goes against the tradition of the Church, as he showed through his quotes from Dom Gueranger, considered the best expert on liturgy in recent memory. 
     
    As I mentioned before: the more you bring up all these diversions (which are going on in about 7 threads now by the way), the more it seems like you are trying to cover for Fr. Purdy's lack of scholarship. Why not stop with these diversions? Let Fr. Purdy come forward and clarify all of this for his followers by:
    1) Proving that he actually speaks Spanish.
    2) Proving that his docuмent does not in fact contradict the tradition of the Church.
     
    Until then, the more you bring up personal attacks against Atila/Plinio, the more you prove to the public that Fr. Purdy has nothing to say because he was caught in two frauds.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #35 on: April 12, 2019, 01:10:59 PM »
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  • All of these Plinio-worshipping/occult claims (which for some reason was recently "resurrected" in this thread in recent days) were disproven by Atila 35 years ago,
    Don't worry about it, this happens all of the time here of CI with these types, just post your material to teach again and do not respond to them. God permits pests like these so we do our work. 

    It's just two women making all of these posts, and they are just giving you easy balls to hit over the fence.  Besides, no one reads their garbage.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Markus

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #36 on: April 12, 2019, 01:11:49 PM »
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  • Don't worry about it, this happens all of the time here of CI with these types, just post your material to teach again and do not respond to them. God permits pests like these so we do your work. It's just two women making all of these posts, and they are just giving you easy balls to hit over the fence.  Besides, no one reads their garbage.
    The voice of reason here.  :applause:

    Offline CestMoiJeanneMarie

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #37 on: April 12, 2019, 01:36:21 PM »
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  • Last Tradhican, thank you for your very reasonable response. Like I said in other threads, it seems they have been sent to try to cover for Fr. Purdy. Where is Fr. Purdy to clear up this whole issue? Nowhere to be found. Perhaps he is hiding under the bed - no wait, he is hiding under the skirts of two ladies named Cera and Meg. 


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Plinio Correa de Oliveira - Another Side of the Story
    « Reply #38 on: April 18, 2019, 03:29:07 PM »
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  • All of these Plinio-worshipping/occult claims (which for some reason was recently "resurrected" in this thread in recent days) were disproven by Atila 35 years ago, when he published two books refuting them. M
    What are the two books?
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary