Author Topic: Pius XII and modernism (Read 3131 times)

PG · « **on:** August 31, 2014, 11:01:38 PM »

http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/piusmodern.htm

This has some juicy details that I hadn't read before. I enjoyed it. Give it a read and comment.

Ambrose · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2014, 12:01:07 AM »

Quote from: + PG +

http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/piusmodern.htm

This has some juicy details that I hadn't read before. I enjoyed it. Give it a read and comment.

Disgusting.

TheKnightVigilant · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2014, 06:21:06 AM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: + PG +
http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/piusmodern.htm

This has some juicy details that I hadn't read before. I enjoyed it. Give it a read and comment.

Disgusting.

Why? There can be no question that the revolutionaries came to power under the watch of Pius XII and that he permitted the modernisation of the liturgy.

PG · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2014, 02:38:49 PM »

What I had not heard/considered before was Pius XII's reform of the curia/cardinals. This comes after Pius X did the opposite(he streamlined the curia). So, with Pius XII you get a new garbage liturgy(so much so that John XXIII in 1960 used the pre 1960 holy week), a NWO inter"national" organization/structure for Rome, and a new Vulgate(bea psalter already taking effect, with the nova Vulgata appearing in the V2 newchurch soon thereafter). I have doubted my 1951 date from time to time, but honestly, the evidence is there.

Canon 7 on the sacrifice of the mass 1562 - "If anyone says that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs which the Catholic Church uses in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety rather than stimulants to piety, let him be anathama".

The way that I see it, either all pre 58 trads are anathama, or Pius XII is anathama. Take your pick.

Mabel · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2014, 02:52:44 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: + PG +
http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/piusmodern.htm

This has some juicy details that I hadn't read before. I enjoyed it. Give it a read and comment.

Disgusting.

That's usually what happens when you click on a Taditio link. It's the tabloid of the trad world. Garbage through and through.

2Vermont · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2014, 02:57:23 PM »

Quote from: Mabel

Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: + PG +
http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/piusmodern.htm

This has some juicy details that I hadn't read before. I enjoyed it. Give it a read and comment.

Disgusting.

That's usually what happens when you click on a Taditio link. It's the tabloid of the trad world. Garbage through and through.

Yeah. I would take what they say with a grain of salt.

PG · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2014, 03:51:05 PM »

typo in my previous post - John XIII used the pre 1954 holy week in 1960.

2vermont - I can agree to taking the article with a grain of salt, and honestly, that is why I posted it. I don't really know anything about traditio. But, even with that said, I think that the conclusions drawn are reasonable. Those from the Pius XII fan club(cmri and TR) are more than welcome to offer a alternative to objections of Pius XII. However, "disgusting" is simply emotion; it is not theology. So, don't waste my time.

Ambrose · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2014, 09:21:22 PM »

Disgusting is a description (not an emotion) of that piece of tabloid trash posted by the OP.

roscoe · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2014, 09:24:32 PM »

That the Barque of St Peter is caught is a hurricane is not the fault of Pius XII. MO is that he is an exemplary Pope who did the best he could. After all, he supports Fr Feeney in Humani Generis & exiles Montini( same same Pius X & Della Chiesa).

He is also responsible for US presence in S Vietnam. Anyone opposed to this is a Communist. :smoke-pot:

roscoe · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2014, 09:55:46 PM »

Because Sen Mc Carthy was very popular in 1954, Ike fears him. His support of the Papal plan in S Vietnam appears to be a political gesture.

In this way the US becomes the protectors of Catholic S Vietnam against the communists. There probably wouldn't have been a Vietnam war if JFK had kept us there. After all any charge that he was doing the will of the Vatican can be attributed to Eisehower--- even though daddy Kennedy was involved.

Source is J Cooney Bio of Spellman. :soapbox:

PG · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2014, 10:54:36 PM »

roscoe · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2014, 11:17:13 PM »

Here we go with attack on Rampolla----

PG · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2014, 11:28:55 PM »

I would like to talk about the mystici corporis section of the article, because it ties in with BoD denial(which is rampant); it "introduced the concept that the church is the mystical body of Christ(a point which feeneyites use to favor their claim).

Here is the section -

The draft of Mystici Corporis was actually prepared by Dutch Jesuit theologian Fr. Sebastian Trump. Its publication was a watershed event -- a major paradigm shift in redefining the juridical and societal role of the Catholic Church. Commenting on the revolutionary nature of Mystici Corporis, Father Avery Dulles, SJ, noted that an attempt to introduce the same concept of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ was rejected in 1870 at the First Vatican Council as being "confusing, ambiguous, vague, inappropriate, and inappropriately biological."

PG · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2014, 11:32:11 PM »

Roscoe - the pius xii section of the recording starts probably at 5 -7 minutes in. I should have specified that, I don't want people falling asleep. Some of it is really useful information.

Stubborn · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2014, 05:17:27 AM »

Quote from: TheKnightVigilant

Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: + PG +
http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/piusmodern.htm

This has some juicy details that I hadn't read before. I enjoyed it. Give it a read and comment.

Disgusting.

Why? There can be no question that the revolutionaries came to power under the watch of Pius XII and that he permitted the modernisation of the liturgy.

No, no, no! Don't you know that the crisis simply appeared in 1960? [/sarcasm]

The sede's simply cannot hear of such a thing as there being a pope, a real pope, genuine and true pope who could have possibly been in office during the infiltration because according to them, that is impossible - it would blow their whole theory.

We can't have the sede's whole theory blown out of the water by suggesting the enemy was already well established within the hierarchy at any time before Pope John XXIII.