Author Topic: Pius XII and His Underground Church (Read 3356 times)

Alexandria · « **on:** June 28, 2010, 04:05:15 PM »

Today I received in the mail a small brochure from a man who has a DVD entitled Pope Pius XII's Underground Church. He says that Pius XII appointed secret cardinals to save the true church and that Malachi Martin was one of them. This might be what PFT was referring to a month or so ago.

Has anyone else ever heard of this?

roscoe · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2010, 04:37:57 PM »

The rumor that Pius XII(XIII) made M Martin a cardinal has surfaced here b4. I do not believe it.

Alexandria · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2010, 04:52:09 PM »

Well, this man has a DVD all about it, so I was wondering if anyone else here aside from Parent For Truth knows anything.

Thursday · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2010, 06:47:29 PM »

Is that a woman in the video talking? She seems to be in her house next to a family altar.

If thats the video I've seen it. I talked to the guy who sells it.
He seemed convinced Malachi Martin had been made a cardinal in pectorum or however you say it.

In saw another video with Rama Coomaraswamy were he talked about Malaci Martin ordaining priests behind the iron curtain.

He definitly had the skills, slick customer

Jamie · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2010, 07:08:20 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria

Today I received in the mail a small brochure from a man who has a DVD entitled Pope Pius XII's Underground Church. He says that Pius XII appointed secret cardinals to save the true church and that Malachi Martin was one of them. This might be what PFT was referring to a month or so ago.

Has anyone else ever heard of this?

It is not relevant - all secret cardinals cease to be cardinals if the Pope dies before announcing their names to the public.

Alexandria · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2010, 07:44:21 PM »

Are you sure about this, Jamie? If so, this should be pointed out to the man who is selling these DVDs.

He does have quite an array of things - he even has a DVD on Necedah and, of course, a few with Dr. Commaraswami.

roscoe · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2010, 08:11:12 PM »

My understanding is that the latter named individual( whatever the correct spelling if his name) is a big Fraud.

Thursday · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2010, 01:36:58 AM »

Quote from: roscoe

My understanding is that the latter named individual( whatever the correct spelling if his name) is a big Fraud.

please elaborate

Jamie · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2010, 02:34:54 AM »

Quote from: Alexandria

Are you sure about this, Jamie? If so, this should be pointed out to the man who is selling these DVDs.

He does have quite an array of things - he even has a DVD on Necedah and, of course, a few with Dr. Commaraswami.

Hi Alexandria,

I am quite sure. Here is the relevant text from the CE:

"An Italian translation of the Latin in pectore, "in the breast", i.e. in the secret of the heart. It happens, at times, that the pope, after creating some cardinals in consistory, adds that he has appointed one or more additional cardinals, whom he reserves in petto, and whom he will make known later: "alios autem [v.g. duos] in pectore reservamus, arbitrio nostro quandoque declarandos." Until they have been publicly announced these cardinals acquire no rights, and if the pope dies before having declared their names they do not become members of the Sacred College."

You may be interested to know that Popes Benedict XIV, Gregory XVI and Pius IX were all named cardinals in pectore but they were announced publicly shortly after.

Here is the catholic encyclopedia article: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08025b.htm

Thursday · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2010, 03:33:41 AM »

Well if he was made a cardinal in pectore to operate benind the iron curtain I doubt it would be made public. I'm certain in places where the church is persecutated they wouldn't be revealing who was made bishop or cardinal.

sedetrad · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2010, 09:41:25 AM »

That would be problematic to name in pecatore cardinals that were behind the iron curtain because as soon as they were named, the the soviets could get and execute them. There has to be some Church law governing a situation like the Soviet Union where it would be detrimental for the Church to name or "out" the in pecatore cardinals in the areas.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2010, 10:27:52 AM »

:surprised:

I wanna see!!!

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2010, 10:30:45 AM »

Did you just say he made a video about Necetah?

Oh brother. I'll look at it, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt if I see it. I'm sorry, Necetah is bogus.

Jamie · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2010, 02:19:19 PM »

Quote from: sedetrad

That would be problematic to name in pecatore cardinals that were behind the iron curtain because as soon as they were named, the the soviets could get and execute them. There has to be some Church law governing a situation like the Soviet Union where it would be detrimental for the Church to name or "out" the in pecatore cardinals in the areas.

The Pope is the only person who knows the name of secret cardinals. If he dies - having left it written down for his successor - the successor can simply ignore it. Therefore, it is most just that the cardinals not named not be cardinals after the death of the Pope. Anything else can cause controversy (as in the case posited by the subject of this thread).

If the Pope wanted an iron curtain cardinal to remain so and he knows he is dying, he would need to bring him to a safe place and announce it.

Also, note, when the Pope does make cardinals in pectore, he states officially the number of them. Pius XII made no cardinals in pectore.

Of previous Popes who did, here are some examples:

Pius X made one (secret due to the revolution in portugal) - he was named shortly before Pius X's death.

Benedict XV and Pius XI each made one and both were revealed.

Pius VI declared 3 - none were ever named.

Pius VII named 11 - all were revealed DESPITE the revolution in France (the reason he created them).

Gregory XVI made 29 but six remained unpublished.

Again note - if the Pope does not announce that he has created them - he hasn't. So even if Siri were Pope - he never announced the creation of in pectore cardinals.

roscoe · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2010, 09:19:17 PM »

Quote from: Thursday

Quote from: roscoe
My understanding is that the latter named individual( whatever the correct spelling if his name) is a big Fraud.

please elaborate

I cannot remember the specifics of this issue-- perhaps some one will provide a link to a prev discussion here in the forum re: Coomswarmy