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Author Topic: Pius XI on Natural Birth Control  (Read 4510 times)

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Offline bowler

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Pius XI on Natural Birth Control
« on: November 12, 2013, 11:22:34 AM »
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    Offline bowler

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    Pius XI on Natural Birth Control
    « Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 11:26:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Director
    More... from RMJI..


    Natural Family Planning is Contraception

    ―Natural Family Planning‖ is also known as ―The Rhythm Method.‖ Pope Pius XI, in his encyclical Casti Connubii, condemns all forms of contraception as immoral, as an ―offense against the law of God and of nature and is a grave (mortal) sin.‖

    Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii: And now, Venerable Brethren, We shall explain in detail the evils opposed to each of the benefits of matrimony. First consideration is due the offspring, which many have the audacity to call the disagreeable burden of matrimony and which they say is to be carefully avoided by married people not through virtuous continence (which Christian law permits in matrimony when both parties consent) but by frustrating the marriage act. …No reason, however grave, may be put forward by anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose, sin against nature, and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God.

    A key word is ―deliberate‖ [b]attempt to prevent [[/b]b]conception[/b]. Pope Pius XI teaches all forms of deliberately frustrating the martial act by depriving it of its natural power and purpose (conception) is a ―sin against nature‖ (the natural law) and is ―intrinsically vicious‖ (intrinsically evil).

     He does not qualify deliberate frustration by saying, only if physical devices are used during the act, or by withdrawal during the act. Birth control pills are taken before not during the act to frustrate the fertile cycle of the woman by making it infertile. Natural Family Planning (hereafter referred to as NFP), which is absolutely unnatural and immoral, uses the same prevention technique as birth control pills. The difference being that birth control pills are replaced with modern scientific techniques that chart the fertile and infertile period. In every case the goal is the exact same, to prevent conception from taking place while engaging in the marital act. Spouses that practice NFP chart the woman‘s fertile and infertile period in order that they can prevent conception by only having marital relations during the infertile period. Deliberate frustration of conception occurs either by obstructing the fertile cycle by NFP or birth control pills, or by using a physical device, or withdrawal during the marital act.

    In every case a deliberate plan is made before the act

    Married couples that attempt to frustrate conception while engaging in the martial act must formulate a deliberate plan in order to do so. In every case they deliberately formulate a plan to prevent conception before the marital act. They either plan to use physical contraceptive devices during the act, or plan to withdraw during the act, or plan to take birth control pills that prevents ovulation before the act, or plan to only have relations during the infertile period. In every case the goal of the plan is the same, to 10 prevent conception when engaging in the marital act. Whether they plan by buying the physical contraceptive devices or pills ahead of time, or the husband plans to withdraw at the appropriate time, or they plan by charting fertile and infertile periods, it is exactly the same plan. In every case they plan to prevent conception when engaging in the marital act. In a sense it could be said about NFP that a contraceptive is placed over the fertile period while engaging in the act during the infertile period, or, the husband withdraws from the act during the fertile period while engaging in it during the infertile period, or, instead of preventing ovulation with a pill it is prevented by charting cycles. Dear reader, open your eyes and ears, can you not see that the intention is the same in every case! Can you not see that NFP is contraception!

    It is intrinsically evil when spouses plan to have sɛҳuąƖ relations while also having planned to make conception impossible. It does not matter in what way the spouses plan to prevent conception. The principle is the same in all cases—the deliberate prevention of conception (child bearing) by the spouses while engaging in the marital act. The goal of contraception is to eliminate the possibility of conception while engaging in the marital act. Whether the contraception takes place during the act by physical obstruction, or before the act by obstructing the fertile period by planning to only commit the act during the infertile period. In both cases the goal of the plan is to perform the sɛҳuąƖ act without the possibility of conception. Guilt of mortal sin occurs when these two conditions are met, either in the mind or in the act. Our Lord teaches us that all sin proceeds from the heart, and manifests itself in men‘s actions. “The things which proceed out of the mouth, come forth from the heart, and those things defile a man. For from the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false testimonies, blasphemies.” (Mt. 15:11, 18-19)

    What is a plan? A plan is the words of a man that proceed from his mouth that come forth from his heart that he seeks to put into action. The root of every plan is in the heart. What is in the heart of spouses who plan to use physical contraceptive devices during the marital act, or plan to withdraw so as to make conception improbably, or plan to have marital relations only during the infertile period? In the heart of these spouses is the desire to have marital relations while having deliberately planned to prevent conception. Pope Pius XI describes what is in their heart, he says, ―Offspring… they say is to be carefully avoided by married people… by frustrating the marriage act… [They] deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose.‖

     Sin originates from what is in the heart. I ask spouses who practice NFP, ―What is in your heart when you practice NFP?‖ While engaging in the martial act, after having planned to do so only during the infertile period, ask yourself in the heat of your lust, ―Am I not committing this very act with the explicit, deliberate, premeditated planned intention of preventing conception while fulfilling my lust?‖ If your wish or prayer is to have relations and that conception does not occur, then you committed the mortal sin of contraception.
     
    St. Augustine, Marriage and Concupiscence 1:15:17 [A.D. 419]: ―I am supposing, then, although are not lying [with your wife] for the sake of procreating offspring, you are not for the sake of lust obstructing their procreation by an evil prayer or an evil deed. Those who do this, although they are called husband and wife, are not; nor do they retain any reality of marriage, but with a respectable name cover a shame. Sometimes this lustful cruelty, or cruel lust, comes to this, that they even procure poisons of sterility …Assuredly if both husband and wife are like this, they are not married, and if they were like this from the beginning they come together not joined in matrimony but in seduction. If both are not like this, I dare to say that 11   either the wife is in a fashion the harlot of her husband or he is an adulterer with his own wife.‖

    Even if the spouses have relations for mutual love, which is a precarious concept I will deal with later, and have deliberately planned to prevent conception, then they commit the mortal sin or contraception, which is always intrinsically evil. It is contraception—contrary to conception. Whether conception is prevented by the use of a physical device or withdrawal during the marital act or by planned obstruction of the fertile period while only engaging in the act during the unfertile period, it is all contraception; the planning of man to prevent conception while engaging in the martial act. Man thus takes the place of God in determining if conception should take place during the marital act.


    Offline bowler

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    Pius XI on Natural Birth Control
    « Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 11:28:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: bowler

    Pius XI Infallible declared CLEARLY in Casti Connubi:

    Quote
    "No reason, however grave, may be put forward by anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose, sin against nature, and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious … any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God".






    The thing is, bowler, engaging in the marital act between periods of ovulation is not frustrating anything, nor does it go against nature.  


    That's true, however, you overlooked "deliberately frustrated [/u]in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God".

    The thing is, Mithrandylan, that deliberately engaging in the marital act only between periods of ovulation is  frustrating the generation life , and  does go against nature. Specially when it is 99.99% accurate.

    The precision of Pius XI infallible decree leaves no room wiggle room.

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 11:30:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    I actually brought up on the other thread that Ibranyi's analysis was wrong.

    Nevertheless, Pius XII DID depart from the teaching of Pius XI on the subject of NFP, but for different reasons.  I too shall start my own thread on the subject, starting with my analysis of the differences.  You're right that the other thread has disgressed onto issues regarding infallibility and the nature of papal authority.

    You may find it interesting to note that a majority of Church Fathers taught that it is sinful to have marital relations during infertile times (e.g. when the wife would be pregnant or too old to conceive, etc.)  Pius XII has "come a long way, baby."


    On the prev page there is a remark by Ambrose that the term NFP was not in use until after the death of Pius XII. If this is correct then there is no way that Pius XII can be said to have departed from Pius XI on 'NFP' because it didn't exist.  :confused1:


    You guys are just playing word games and semantics, thus turning this thread into a joke.  Everyone knows that we're using NFP as shorthand for allowing abstinence deliberately during fertile-only period, OK?  I'd prefer to type NFP than to describe it long-hand in ever single post.  Paul VI actually referred to this method as birth control in Humanae Vitae -- I believe that the phrase was a "method for controlling birth."

    I don't like the term either, it's just a euphemis for "Natural Birth Control".  So if I post on this matter in the future (I'm bailing out of this thread due to the fact that Ambrose is just wasting everyone's time with intellectual dishonesty.), I'm going to use NBC instead of NFP, since that's precisely what this is.


    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 11:55:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ambrose
    Bowlers wrote:

    Quote
    That's true, however, you overlooked "deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God".

    The thing is, Mithrandylan, that deliberately engaging in the marital act only between periods of ovulation is  frustrating the generation life , and  does go against nature. Specially when it is 99.99% accurate.

    The precision of Pius XI infallible decree leaves no room wiggle room.


    Are you deliberately misrepresenting Pope Pius XI's teaching or have you just not read it, and relying on Ibranyi's explanation?  Pope Pius XI taught exactly the opposite of what you are saying he taught.

    Pius XI taught:

    Quote
    Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth. For in matrimony as well as in the use of the matrimonial rights there are also secondary ends, such as mutual aid, the cultivating of mutual love, and the quieting of concupiscence which husband and wife are not forbidden to consider so long as they are subordinated to the primary end and so long as the intrinsic nature of the act is preserved.

    Casti Connubii #59.


    What is there for me to deliberately misrepresent? All I'm doing is repeating a clear dogmatic infallible decree.

    Quote
    "No reason, however grave, may be put forward by anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose, sin against nature, and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious … any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God".


    Now I will read your Pius XI quote as it is written:

    Quote
    "Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth".


    That quote is saying one is not acting against nature if one engages in marital relations during periods of infertility, or if they have certain defects that prevent conception.

    Two different things!
    My quote: "those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose, sin against nature".

    Your quote: "use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth"

    A couple who deliberately only have relations during times of infertility, "natural birth control", which is now 99.99% accurate, is
    deliberately frustrating[/u] its natural power and purpose, sin against nature"

    It is undeniable that NBC (natural birth control) is a deliberate act. It is undeniable that it is 99.99% effective at frustrating conception!

    I am just reading clear dogmatic infallible decree as it is clearly and precisely written.


    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 01:03:20 PM »
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  • Fr. Lavaud O.P., Le Monde Moderne et le Marriage, 1935:

    "We cannot see an adaption to nature in something which is, in effect, a trick to frustrate nature"


    Offline songbird

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    « Reply #6 on: November 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM »
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  • Define frustrating nature.  Give examples, please.

    Offline songbird

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    « Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 07:33:04 PM »
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  • What God has created, what you refer to as nature, is how a woman was made.  Signs of fertility were given in the process of creation.  That is God's.  What is God's is not evil.  It is in the heart of the person and that is what will be judged, not what God has created.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 07:40:16 PM »
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  • I just saw this.

    Why are you creating a new thread?  We have one going already.  Keep it in the thread we already have.  Creating a new one when the topic is the same is needlessly confusing.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mabel

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    « Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 07:45:09 PM »
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  • Good job here, Mith. I'm only sorry that you seem to be unable to get through to these guys.



    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #10 on: November 12, 2013, 07:46:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    I just saw this.

    Why are you creating a new thread?  We have one going already.  Keep it in the thread we already have.  Creating a new one when the topic is the same is needlessly confusing.


    This thread is specifically about Pius XI's Casti Connubi, the other thread is about Pius XII's and whether he was a heretic for teaching error. That is why I started this thread.


    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #11 on: November 12, 2013, 07:50:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    Define frustrating nature.  Give examples, please.


    Did you read Casti Connubi? Did you read the quote by Fr. Lavaud specifically about exclusively limiting intercourse to infertile periods?:

    Quote from: bowler
    Fr. Lavaud O.P., Le Monde Moderne et le Marriage, 1935:

    "We cannot see an adaption to nature in something which is, in effect, a trick to frustrate nature"



    They should tell you what "frustrating nature" means in this specific case.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #12 on: November 12, 2013, 08:04:08 PM »
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  • Fellow members, I encourage you not to encourage bowler.  He is just starting over from the beginning with his arguments, which have all been addressed in the other thread.  There's no reason to do it again until he satisfies the responses he's receive in the other thread, and such satisfaction is really owed to the other thread, which is more than appropriate for this topic.

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=28262&min=65#p2
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #13 on: November 12, 2013, 08:21:11 PM »
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  • The “Rhythm in Marriage and Christian Morality by Fr. N. Orville Griese, S.T.D, J.C.L.,1944, Pages 39-41


    The Encyclical "Casti Connubii"

    Quite a few contemporary theologians are of the opinion that His Holiness, Pope Pius XI expresses approval of the "safe period" practice in his encyclical on "Chaste Wedlock."  The passage in question is the following: speaking of the evil use of matrimony, the Holy Father says that the husband or wife is not guilty of sin "when for a grave cause he or she reluctantly allows the perversion of the right order," and he adds:

    “Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner, although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth."

    The text would seem to indicate that the Holy Father is speaking of those who are physically sterile ("certain defects") or who have passed the menopause ("reasons ... of time"); those are times "when new life cannot be brought forth” In the case of "Oginists," new life can be brought forth. In fact, that is precisely the reason why such a complicated practice is adopted.

    A study of the context leads us to a similar conclusion. In the same section of the encyclical, the Holy Father mentions that the Church "well understands and clearly appreciates all that is said regarding the health of the mother and the danger to her life;" (p. 92) that he is "deeply touched by the sufferings of those parents who, in extreme want, experience great difficulty in rearing their children." (p. 93). He likewise refers to those who "cannot on the one hand remain continent nor on the other can they have children because of the difficulties whether on the part of the mother or on the part of family circuмstances." (p. 91). It would seem that the mention of the "safe period" method would be fitting in connection with one of the above phrases if it was to be mentioned at all. Instead of suggesting a system of voluntary sterility, however, the Holy Father reminds the mothers that "God will assuredly repay them (her) in a measure full to overflowing;" (p. 92) he reminds both spouses that "there are no possible circuмstances in which husband and wife cannot, strengthened by the grace of God, fulfill faithfully their duties and preserve in wedlock their chastity unspotted;” (p. 93) that "any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act a deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life, is an offense against the law of Gad and of nature…”

    We must admit that if the Holy Father had any intention of approving of any system such as the “safe period" method, he does it in most obscure language. On the other hand, the meaning of the disputed text is clear and intelligible if we do not try to force a reference to the "safe period" in between the lines.

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #14 on: November 12, 2013, 08:41:08 PM »
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  • That entire quote is from Fr. Griese, I did not write one word of my opinion on it.