The Vatican newspaper has denounced the gesture made by parishioners at a church in Oppido Mamertina, Italy, who detoured a religious procession to honor a convicted leader of the ‘Ndrangheta crime syndicate.

L'Osservatore Romano remarked that the "perversion of religious sentiment often accompanies criminal activity and acquiescence, dictated by fear or interest, unfortunately still widespread among the people."


http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21950

The newspaper denounced them ? Whoa, now that was really harsh, that will teach them !

I want a video of Pope Francis doing the excommunication like Richard Burton or I don't believe it.

He is the pope. I take his word for it.

Quote from: poche

Quote from: johnb104

I want a video of Pope Francis doing the excommunication like Richard Burton or I don't believe it.

He is the pope. I take his word for it.

This just dawned on me and thank you for it poche.

Unless the Pope mentions these criminals individually by name then his proclamation has zero meaning.

Look what has happened with the probaby killers. It is announced they are ipso facto no paper needed ex-communicated and the likes of them (like Nancy Peℓσѕι) will make the claim it does not apply to them at all.

They claim they are catholic and the church needs to grow up.

It is not like people in the mafia go around claiming to be members- so francis needs to write a docuмent naming the individuals by name who are excommunicated or this is all for show and he is a coward.

I'm glad to see someone say this.  It was the first thing that came to mind when I heard the news but then I forgot about it.  I figured I must not be looking at all the facts, and I was sure that individual names would emerge.  

But you say no names have been mentioned?  

If that is the case, then this is all for show and he's a coward, as you say!

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The point is, how would it be enforced?  What is, for example one thing that is consequent to excommunication, in practice?  How about reception of Holy Communion -- if Nancy Peℓσѕι, for instance, were excommunicated for pertinacious public denial of the evil of abortion (which would be a just excom for her), and then later, she were to show up at some Mass somewhere presenting herself for Communion, the priest distributing it could simply pass her up, and she would nave no recourse because she isn't supposed to be receiving Communion unless she abjures her error and stops denying the evil that is abortion.

Of course, with laymen distributing Communion, such a thing probably isn't going to happen.  So this is somewhat hypothetical, as if the Church were still practicing common sense.  It would, however, still apply to TLM chapels, where the priest alone distributes Communion.

So, now that "the mafia" has been excommunicated, what would happen if Guido Gumba were to show up at a Trad chapel trying to receive Communion?  Let's say Guido Gumba is a prominent mafia member in Palermo, for example.  When Guido kneels at the Communion rail, the Trad priest could simply pass him up, having recognized him.  But was Guido excommunicated?  Is the name Guido Gumba in the docuмent from Francis?  

Since Guido is a prominent member of the mafia, it's not so difficult to see he would be passed up at the communion rail (even if sometimes the priest might make a mistake and give Guido a host especially if Guido comes to Mass wearing a disguise that conceals his identity).  But what about Guido's secretary, Giuseppe Parmigiano?  Given that Giuseppe's name is not on the list (nor is Guido's or anyone else's apparently), and he is not a renown mafia member, how would the priest know to not give him Communion?  But Giuseppe practices every day obedience and service to the mafia, helping to make it work the way it does, and Giuseppe does not offer any resistance to the evils that the mafia practices.  Does the so-called excommunication of the mafia extend to people like Giuseppe Parmigiano?  

What about mafia hit-men?  They're not named in the Francis-papers.  But without them the mafia wouldn't be effective, since their services are essential to the mafia and what it does.  Should the priest distributing Communion pass up a communicant presenting himself at the Communion rail because the priest thinks that MAYBE this is the guy that he had seen among a group of 3 men walking down the sidewalk the other day visiting merchants in town who had not paid the mafia for their "protection?"  What if the priest is mistaken?  What if this guy who somehow resembles a mafia hit-man is really a tourist from Venice who just LOOKS LIKE one of the mafia hit-men in Palermo?  

When my friend told me with excitement about this action of Pope Francis in the news, I asked him about how the enforcement would be applied, my friend told me that it doesn't matter how it's enforced, and that the important thing is that this announcement was made, that the mafia is excommunicated.  Then I replied to him, that if there is no enforcement, then this is just a news media story with no practical consequence, since nothing will ever come of it.  My friend said he didn't agree, but he had no proposal that offered any alternative consequence to this announcement.  Nor was he willing to accept that this non-consequential announcement is just a hype story.

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The point is, how would it be enforced?  What is, for example one thing that is consequent to excommunication, in practice?  How about reception of Holy Communion -- if Nancy Peℓσѕι, for instance, were excommunicated for pertinacious public denial of the evil of abortion (which would be a just excom for her), and then later, she were to show up at some Mass somewhere presenting herself for Communion, the priest distributing it could simply pass her up, and she would nave no recourse because she isn't supposed to be receiving Communion unless she abjures her error and stops denying the evil that is abortion.

Of course, with laymen distributing Communion, such a thing probably isn't going to happen.  So this is somewhat hypothetical, as if the Church were still practicing common sense.  It would, however, still apply to TLM chapels, where the priest alone distributes Communion.

So, now that "the mafia" has been excommunicated, what would happen if Guido Gumba were to show up at a Trad chapel trying to receive Communion?  Let's say Guido Gumba is a prominent mafia member in Palermo, for example.  When Guido kneels at the Communion rail, the Trad priest could simply pass him up, having recognized him.  But was Guido excommunicated?  Is the name Guido Gumba in the docuмent from Francis?  

Since Guido is a prominent member of the mafia, it's not so difficult to see he would be passed up at the communion rail (even if sometimes the priest might make a mistake and give Guido a host especially if Guido comes to Mass wearing a disguise that conceals his identity).  But what about Guido's secretary, Giuseppe Parmigiano?  Given that Giuseppe's name is not on the list (nor is Guido's or anyone else's apparently), and he is not a renown mafia member, how would the priest know to not give him Communion?  But Giuseppe practices every day obedience and service to the mafia, helping to make it work the way it does, and Giuseppe does not offer any resistance to the evils that the mafia practices.  Does the so-called excommunication of the mafia extend to people like Giuseppe Parmigiano?  

What about mafia hit-men?  They're not named in the Francis-papers.  But without them the mafia wouldn't be effective, since their services are essential to the mafia and what it does.  Should the priest distributing Communion pass up a communicant presenting himself at the Communion rail because the priest thinks that MAYBE this is the guy that he had seen among a group of 3 men walking down the sidewalk the other day visiting merchants in town who had not paid the mafia for their "protection?"  What if the priest is mistaken?  What if this guy who somehow resembles a mafia hit-man is really a tourist from Venice who just LOOKS LIKE one of the mafia hit-men in Palermo?  

When my friend told me with excitement about this action of Pope Francis in the news, I asked him about how the enforcement would be applied, my friend told me that it doesn't matter how it's enforced, and that the important thing is that this announcement was made, that the mafia is excommunicated.  Then I replied to him, that if there is no enforcement, then this is just a news media story with no practical consequence, since nothing will ever come of it.  My friend said he didn't agree, but he had no proposal that offered any alternative consequence to this announcement.  Nor was he willing to accept that this non-consequential announcement is just a hype story.

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It could be the same as for abortion. The sentene for a procured abortion is excommunication latae sententiae, that is automatic.