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Offline soulguard

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Philosophy thread
« on: November 10, 2013, 11:02:41 AM »
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  • What philosophers have you read, or do people here like?

    I have read several of them, most of them were not religious but secular, but there is still some wisdom to be found even in their books.

    Anyone ever read
    Plato
    Machaeiveilli
    Kant
    Aristotle
    or seriously take time to go through Aquinas?

    Quote from Kant:

    "There are only two ways with which we can account for the necessary agreement of experience with the concepts of its objects. Either experience makes these concepts possible, or these concepts make experience possible".
    - Critique of pure reason.

    I think that is just pure logic.


    Offline BitDudeX

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 02:21:27 PM »
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  • Currently reading Schopenhauer cause im so INTELLECTUAL

     :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan:


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 10:16:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: soulguard
    What philosophers have you read, or do people here like?

    I have read several of them, most of them were not religious but secular, but there is still some wisdom to be found even in their books.

    Anyone ever read
    Plato
    Machaeiveilli
    Kant
    Aristotle
    or seriously take time to go through Aquinas?

    Quote from Kant:

    "There are only two ways with which we can account for the necessary agreement of experience with the concepts of its objects. Either experience makes these concepts possible, or these concepts make experience possible".
    - Critique of pure reason.

    I think that is just pure logic.



    A word to the wise:   Drop Kant and don't look back.  

    If you want to be Catholic, don't do yourself the extreme disservice of
    soaking up intellectual poison.  

    There are several things about that quote that are utterly insane, but
    if you don't know any better, you'll miss it.  

    Give Kant and all his buddies the heave-ho before it's too late for you.

    Aristotle is okay, and Aquinas is okay.  The Fathers and Doctors of the
    Church are fine.  

    If you have any particular interest in some topic, how about you say
    what that is, and maybe someone here can help you.  But if you keep
    dipping into the cesspool, don't be surprised if you come down with
    cholera.  

    What it is.

    .




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    Offline soulguard

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2013, 09:20:25 AM »
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  • What exactly was wrong with that quote from Kant, can you explain it to me?

    If he was an atheist philosopher that is not enough to dismiss absolutely everything he says, there might be an element of truth somewhere. Whatever is wrong with his reasoning is not obvious to me.

    First of all "There are only 2 ways with which we can account for the necessary agreement of experience with

    He speaks of how experience must register with the intellect in one of two ways

    "...with the concepts of its obejcts
    Either experience makes these concepts possible
    Or these concepts make experience possible
    "

    He speaks of how an object must be detected by the senses before it can register with the intellect. If experience makes these concepts possible, then the intellect is formed through the information from the senses which constructs moralistic concepts from what it has detected.

    On the other hand, if these concepts make experience possible, he is saying that the intellect possesses already a store of knowledge and an in built morality which then skews all experience to make it serve its concepts. People who do this will believe that everything they experience reinforces their beliefs, while not permitting new information to change their concepts.

    I think all people are a mixture of both methods, it only depends on their age. New borns will be the first, adults with a sense of moralistic tradition will be the second. The wise man should be a mixture of both methods, and should never stop learning, but should always bend to what is true.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 09:45:48 AM »
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  • .

    There is no point in trying to figure out what's wrong with bad thinking
    like this from the standpoint of the bad thinking itself.  

    Similarly, you can't see what's wrong with protestantism or Buddhism
    from the point of reference inside the false religion.  

    If you insist on discussing that quote and what you like about it or
    what it means to you or how wonderful you feel when you read it or
    how many ways it can make you think it "means" something to you,
    even though you have no idea of what it "means" to someone else,
    then there is nothing I can do for you.  One of the principles of this
    modern philosophy nonsense is, that there is no "meaning" at all.  

    Did you know that?  Or is knowledge itself unknowable?

    If you cannot set yourself free from bad thinking, then you will just
    end up spending all your time, and your life, in bad thinking.  

    So have it your way.




    There is principally one primal heresy, and it has three parts:

    There is no truth;

    Even if there were truth, it cannot be known;

    Even if it could be known, it cannot be communicated.




    Do you know what these three entities are a reflection of?  


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    Offline soulguard

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 10:25:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    There is no point in trying to figure out what's wrong with bad thinking
    like this from the standpoint of the bad thinking itself.  

    Similarly, you can't see what's wrong with protestantism or Buddhism
    from the point of reference inside the false religion.  

    If you insist on discussing that quote and what you like about it or
    what it means to you or how wonderful you feel when you read it or
    how many ways it can make you think it "means" something to you,
    even though you have no idea of what it "means" to someone else,
    then there is nothing I can do for you.  One of the principles of this
    modern philosophy nonsense is, that there is no "meaning" at all.  

    Did you know that?  Or is knowledge itself unknowable?

    If you cannot set yourself free from bad thinking, then you will just
    end up spending all your time, and your life, in bad thinking.  

    So have it your way.




    There is principally one primal heresy, and it has three parts:

    There is no truth;

    Even if there were truth, it cannot be known;

    Even if it could be known, it cannot be communicated.




    Do you know what these three entities are a reflection of?  


    .


    Yeah well I think youre just mouthing off and that you have no idea what you are talking about. You cant play the Catholic card and say that Catholics should not be interested in philosophy, because Philosophy is studied along with theology for the priesthood and there are statues and paintings about philosophy itself in the Vatican. I am no less a Catholic because I take an interest in these things, I take truth from everywhere, and that is what makes a Catholic.

    Offline TheKnightVigilant

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 11:14:24 AM »
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  • Kant promoted an existentialist/relativist worldview and consequently his philosophy is utterly at odds with Catholicism.

    Offline soulguard

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #7 on: November 11, 2013, 11:31:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: TheKnightVigilant
    Kant promoted an existentialist/relativist worldview and consequently his philosophy is utterly at odds with Catholicism.


    What is wrong with the quote from him? And if nothing, is it not possible that he will speak the truth at least sometimes?


    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #8 on: November 11, 2013, 12:01:21 PM »
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  • Soulguard, Neil gave you sound advice. Philosophy is the handmaiden of theology and not the other way around. A tiny number of men, whom Neil has named for you, are worthy of a Catholic's time.

    The most grave sin of all, liberalism - and that as detailed by Fr. Felix Sarda y Sylvany in his classic, compact work, "Liberalism Is A Sin"  - is so lethal inasmuch as it is an attack on faith in God and His Revelation.

    You would do very well indeed for yourself and for the world were you to more closely follow Neil's advice and the teachings of Aquinas and Aristotle instead of toying with the liberals of the world like Kant, a man whose impact on undisciplined Catholic minds has been devastating.

    The very word philosophy means the love of truth.

    And Truth is a Divine Person. One Who has bestowed great honor upon His humble son, Thomas Aquinas.

    Here is a free, online edition of "Liberalism Is A Sin" for your perusal.

    http://www.liberalismisasin.com/

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Philosophy thread
    « Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 12:38:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    There is no point in trying to figure out what's wrong with bad thinking
    like this from the standpoint of the bad thinking itself.  

    Similarly, you can't see what's wrong with protestantism or Buddhism
    from the point of reference inside the false religion.  

    If you insist on discussing that quote and what you like about it or
    what it means to you or how wonderful you feel when you read it or
    how many ways it can make you think it "means" something to you,
    even though you have no idea of what it "means" to someone else,
    then there is nothing I can do for you.  One of the principles of this
    modern philosophy nonsense is, that there is no "meaning" at all.  

    Did you know that?  Or is knowledge itself unknowable?

    If you cannot set yourself free from bad thinking, then you will just
    end up spending all your time, and your life, in bad thinking.  

    So have it your way.




    There is principally one primal heresy, and it has three parts:

    There is no truth;

    Even if there were truth, it cannot be known;

    Even if it could be known, it cannot be communicated.




    Do you know what these three entities are a reflection of?  


    .


    Yeah well I think youre just mouthing off and that you have no idea what you are talking about. You cant play the Catholic card and say that Catholics should not be interested in philosophy, because Philosophy is studied along with theology for the priesthood and there are statues and paintings about philosophy itself in the Vatican. I am no less a Catholic because I take an interest in these things, I take truth from everywhere, and that is what makes a Catholic.





    You have entirely missed the point, soulguard.  

    No Catholic priest studies Kant in seminary unless it's a Communist
    fake seminary.  Philosophy is in fact part of the curriculum, but it is
    good, solid philosophia perennis, not the rotten garbage of Kant.

    Your "interest in these things" should be directed at that which is
    good, not that which is pernicious.  If you want to study visual arts,
    do you focus on pornography to the exclusion of all else?  Same topic.

    Is there no truth in pornography?  Do you take truth from Zoroastrianism
    or the Big Thumb or the devil worshippers of the Aztecs?  



    Take a perfectly good butter pecan cake and put one drop of cyanide
    inside of it.  Is the cake devoid of any goodness?  Is there not still
    parts of it that are wholesome and delicious, if not fattening?  Does
    that mean you should still have a slice, as you are wont to do with
    poisoned philosophy?  Would you serve it to your family just being
    careful to avoid that spot where the cyanide is located?  If you can
    remember where that is, of course.  It was dropped in FIRST and then
    the icing was spread on LATER.  Where is the spot??  Is it not
    important?  



    Maybe you like to look for 'truths' in the docuмents of Vatican II, or in
    the abominable AFD of Fellay, which is pure Modernism (the Grand Sewer
    of all heresies)?  

    You're sounding just like the progeny of JPII and B16 or even Francis.  






    Listen up, soulguard:  


    I am giving you a reasonable chance to learn something.  

    If you're going to be impudent, insulting and pugnatious, you are not
    ready to learn anything.  If Our Lord Himself were to walk up to you
    and you had something like this to say to Him, would he give you a
    second chance?  

    I require an apology from you.  You accused me of "mouthing off."

    That is not allowable.  I was doing no such thing.  You have insulted
    me and I take extreme umbrage with your mocking tone.  






    Quote from: TheKnightVigilant
    Kant promoted an existentialist/relativist worldview and consequently his philosophy is utterly at odds with Catholicism.




    Thank you, TheKnightVigilant.  I'm glad to see someone is not yet lost here.



    Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: TheKnightVigilant
    Kant promoted an existentialist/relativist worldview and consequently his philosophy is utterly at odds with Catholicism.


    What is wrong with the quote from him? And if nothing, is it not possible that he will speak the truth at least sometimes?




    Maybe you should read what I posted above again, and this time,
    pay attention.  I'm not going to repeat it because it's already here.
    I said what I meant and I meant what I said, and if that's too much
    for you then have it your way.  Too bad for you.  

    In the fresco of the Last Judgment by Michelangelo, his depiction of
    Our Blessed Mother and the expression on her face is a lesson to all
    who have eyes to see.  And for those without eyes to see, so be it.  



    Quote from: Anthony Benedict
    Soulguard, Neil gave you sound advice. Philosophy is the handmaiden of theology and not the other way around. A tiny number of men, whom Neil has named for you, are worthy of a Catholic's time.

    The most grave sin of all, liberalism - and that as detailed by Fr. Felix Sarda y Sylvany in his classic, compact work, "Liberalism Is A Sin"  - is so lethal inasmuch as it is an attack on faith in God and His Revelation.

    You would do very well indeed for yourself and for the world were you to more closely follow Neil's advice and the teachings of Aquinas and Aristotle instead of toying with the liberals of the world like Kant, a man whose impact on undisciplined Catholic minds has been devastating.

    The very word philosophy means the love of truth.

    And Truth is a Divine Person. One Who has bestowed great honor upon His humble son, Thomas Aquinas.

    Here is a free, online edition of "Liberalism Is A Sin" for your perusal.

    http://www.liberalismisasin.com/



    If you want to learn you have to get rid of Kant, Hegel, Hume, Locke,
    Fichte, Nietzsche, Whitehead, Comte, Dewey, Marx, Darwin, Blavatsky,
    Stalin, Hitler, Lenin, Alinsky, etc., etc., etc.  

    Get rid of them or else they will rot your mind.  

    If you want your mind to be rotten, then not even God can help you.




    The human will is a hard thing, and God gives you that for a reason:  so
    that you have the power to reject His truth.  The devils in hell believe in
    God and tremble.  

    .
    .
    .

    But they're still in hell.  


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    Offline BitDudeX

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    « Reply #10 on: November 11, 2013, 12:41:01 PM »
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  • hahahaha

    the post above me

     :laugh2:


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #11 on: November 11, 2013, 12:48:12 PM »
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  •  

     :roll-laugh1:  

    BitDudeX the idiot again.   :roll-laugh2:


    .
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    Offline soulguard

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    « Reply #12 on: November 11, 2013, 02:08:18 PM »
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  • "Know thy enemy, but do not forget above all to know thyself, the commander who embraces this totality of battle shall win, even with inferior force"
    Sun Tzu

    Does he poison my mind aswell? Or can I use his ideas for the defence of the church?

    Btw I am also a fan of Niccolo Machaeaveilli.

    Offline soulguard

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    « Reply #13 on: November 11, 2013, 02:09:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat


     :roll-laugh1:  

    BitDudeX the idiot again.   :roll-laugh2:


    .


    Yes go away "bit dude X ".

    Offline soulguard

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    « Reply #14 on: November 11, 2013, 02:15:38 PM »
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  • @ Nihil Obstat

    I respect your views, but I remain convinced of the utility of secular philosophers. If my liking of their quotes causes offence, then I regret that, but I don't think you have cause to be offended. You did come to this thread freely, and it was started by me, and my opinion is not relevant to what you do. If you are to dispose of secular philosophers, you say there is no truth in them, and it is the same thing as disposing of secular scientists, disposing of something true they might do because they do not have the faith.
    I am not saying their notions are correct, but if some philosopher talks psychology and states the obvious, you are not obliged to resist it, because the truth is the concern of a Catholic. Instead you ought to find out how to use the truth for the betterment of the church. If you ignore the truth then the church will suffer, you must know the truth and take advantage of it for the exultation of the church.