Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5

Author Topic: Period of peace (question for angelus)  (Read 14179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Predestination2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 695
  • Reputation: +141/-272
  • Gender: Male
Period of peace (question for angelus)
« on: March 16, 2025, 05:36:43 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Question for angelus - if the period of peace is after the antichrist how do we explain luke 18:8

    I say to you, that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?
    Logged

    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5083
    • Reputation: +2000/-409
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2025, 07:53:50 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • There is a time of peace after Latter times. Our Lady said Her Immaculate Heart will reign/established. That will be the time of peace, which come before the end times.
    Logged

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1198
    • Reputation: +509/-99
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2025, 08:00:30 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Predestination2 on March 16, 2025, 05:36:43 PM
    Question for angelus - if the period of peace is after the antichrist how do we explain luke 18:8

    I say to you, that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?

    First, explain to me why you think Luke 18:8 somehow proves that there is a period of peace BEFORE the Antichrist? The passage you quoted does not mention anything about a "period of peace." There is also nothing resembling a description of Antichrist. 
    Logged

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2025, 08:07:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Angelus on March 16, 2025, 08:00:30 PM
    First, explain to me why you think Luke 18:8 somehow proves that there is a period of peace BEFORE the Antichrist?
    thats not my postition

    my position is yours, and that of fr berry,  but i cant seem to square this position with luke 18:8
    Logged

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 9446
    • Reputation: +9246/-926
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2025, 08:07:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: songbird on March 16, 2025, 07:53:50 PM
    There is a time of peace after Latter times. Our Lady said Her Immaculate Heart will reign/established. That will be the time of peace, which come before the end times.

    5th Age of the Church, now... ends with WWIII and 3DD.

    6th Age, the Marian Age or Period of Peace.

    7th Age, period of the Anti-Christ, conversion of the jews shortly before the return of Our Lord.
    Logged
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #5 on: March 16, 2025, 08:09:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Incredulous on March 16, 2025, 08:07:58 PM
    5th Age of the Church, now... ends with WWIII and 3DD.

    6th Age, the Marian Age or Period of Peace.

    7th Age, period of the Anti-Christ, conversion of the jews shortly before the return of Our Lord.
    issue is frankie is obviously the false prophet. the 6th age of the church was from 1929-1958.

    mussolini/hitler clearly parralel king cyrus, who brought the isrealites out of captivity. One of them was likely the great catholic monarch, probably mussolini because he did the lateran treaty, this is backed by pius xiii obvioulsy beimg the angelic pontiff
    Logged

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #6 on: March 16, 2025, 08:12:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • but scripture and prophecy indicate that there will be an even greater triumph, after the antichrist. this is a view held by Fr sylvester berry, angelus (seemingly) and myself
    Logged

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1198
    • Reputation: +509/-99
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #7 on: March 16, 2025, 08:48:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Incredulous on March 16, 2025, 08:07:58 PM
    5th Age of the Church, now... ends with WWIII and 3DD.

    6th Age, the Marian Age or Period of Peace.

    7th Age, period of the Anti-Christ, conversion of the jews shortly before the return of Our Lord.

    FWIW, I essentially agree with this sequence, with a few exceptions/clarifications.

    1. 5th Age: I believe that the man, who will be revealed to be the Antichrist, is the person responsible for WWIII and false earthly peace narrative that goes along with it. He is the "mystery of iniquity that already worketh" [2 Thessalonians 2:7]. Said another way, the man called the Antichrist "already worketh" BEFORE he is finally revealed, according to St. Paul. Prior to him being revealed, he is deceiving those who follow him. The supernatural "revelation" is a remedy for this "deception."

    2. 6th Age: This is a short "period of peace." It happens immediately after the Antichrist is supernaturally revealed [2 Thessalonians 2:8]. The revelation will bring about a respite or a quiet time of reflection. This will be a period of consolation for the faithful remnant, for they will be encouraged by the heavenly revelation. On the other hand, those who had been following the teachings of the (now revealed) Antichrist will be confused and afraid of the revelation. Some of the latter will convert. During this period Our Lady, the Great Monarch and Angelic Pope try to counteract the deception of the Antichrist. This short "period of peace" will probably last a few months, at most.

    3. 7th Age: Soon after the revelation of the Antichrist, people will begin to split into two camps: those who decide to follow Jesus Christ and those who decide to follow Antichrist. This is the final period before the return of Our Lord. It lasts no more than 3.5 years. After this Jesus Christ returns as King as Judge. Those who persevere in the truth of Jesus Christ will enter Paradise, the eternal Era of Peace, the Rest. Those who follow the Antichrist and his Ten Horns will receive the "mark of the Beast" and end up in Gehenna.

    Logged

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1198
    • Reputation: +509/-99
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #8 on: March 16, 2025, 09:34:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Predestination2 on March 16, 2025, 08:07:47 PM
    thats not my postition

    my position is yours, and that of fr berry,  but i cant seem to square this position with luke 18:8

    I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are saying. Again, maybe you can explain why you think Luke 18:8 is so important. I don't see any connection with that verse and the "period of peace," so I don't even know where to start with a response to you.

    Logged

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #9 on: March 16, 2025, 09:58:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Angelus on March 16, 2025, 09:34:26 PM
    I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are saying. Again, maybe you can explain why you think Luke 18:8 is so important. I don't see any connection with that verse and the "period of peace," so I don't even know where to start with a response to you.
    if the period of peace is after the antichrist, there will be faith on the earth when our lord returns. Because Our Lord returns at the end of the earth, the idea that our lord returns and physically reigns on earth is called chiliasm and is a theological error, if the period of peace is at the end of the earth ,  then it follows that Our Lord will return, ending the period of peace, and that there WILL be faith on the earth, in immense abundance
    Logged

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1198
    • Reputation: +509/-99
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #10 on: March 17, 2025, 11:38:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Predestination2 on March 16, 2025, 09:58:24 PM
    if the period of peace is after the antichrist, there will be faith on the earth when our lord returns. Because Our Lord returns at the end of the earth, the idea that our lord returns and physically reigns on earth is called chiliasm and is a theological error, if the period of peace is at the end of the earth ,  then it follows that Our Lord will return, ending the period of peace, and that there WILL be faith on the earth, in immense abundance

    I think I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for clarifying. I will trying to restate what you have said. Feel free to correct me, if I have misunderstood.

    You seem to be saying that the "period of peace" cannot come AFTER the reign of the Antichrist because you think that Our Lord returns during a period of turmoil and little Faith. But the "period of peace" is not described as a period of turmoil and little faith. Instead, it is described a time of universal Faith all over the world. Therefore, you say, since Our Lord comes at "the end of time," the period of the Antichrist must be at the end, not the "period of peace." Did I understand you correctly. I don't want to move on unless we are understanding each other.

    Logged

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #11 on: March 17, 2025, 04:18:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Angelus on March 17, 2025, 11:38:17 AM
    I think I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for clarifying. I will trying to restate what you have said. Feel free to correct me, if I have misunderstood.

    You seem to be saying that the "period of peace" cannot come AFTER the reign of the Antichrist because you think that Our Lord returns during a period of turmoil and little Faith. But the "period of peace" is not described as a period of turmoil and little faith. Instead, it is described a time of universal Faith all over the world. Therefore, you say, since Our Lord comes at "the end of time," the period of the Antichrist must be at the end, not the "period of peace." Did I understand you correctly. I don't want to move on unless we are understanding each other.
    Yes, we are understanding each other . You have understood what I have said perfectly 
    Logged

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1198
    • Reputation: +509/-99
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #12 on: March 17, 2025, 05:10:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Predestination2 on March 17, 2025, 04:18:49 PM
    Yes, we are understanding each other . You have understood what I have said perfectly

    Okay. I agree with you that a "period of peace" defined as "a time of universal faith all over the world" cannot come AFTER the reign of Antichrist, if we define "the world" as our present world.

    But I want to make a distinction, there is our present "world" and there is the new "world" to come, described in Apocalypse 21 as the "New Heaven and New Earth."

    First, I think we agree that a "period of peace" defined as "a time of universal faith" all over the PRESENT world is impossible and heretical because that is a form of chiliasm or millenarianism. In our present world (or age), it is impossible to realize this kind of "peace" that is reserved only for "eternity." This "period of peace" can only happen after Satan (and sin and death) are finally defeated. That will not happen in our present material-temporal world.

    Chiliasm is wrong because it tries to bring an eternal reality (the "period of peace") into the present world. The error can be seen concretely in the false translation of the Gloria.

    Chiliastic: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

    Catholic:  "Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will."

    The Chilastics hope for an earthly peace in the present world. They seek to achieve it by being of "good will" toward other people. If we are kind and tolerant with one another, we can have peace in this present world. That is the Millenarian dream of heaven on earth. That is false teaching according to the true Catholic Faith.

    The Catholics, on the other hand, have always known that there is true peace only for those men who seek to do the will of God. This means if we keep the Commandments (the Greatest Commandment and love neighbor as ourselves, which perfects the Ten Commandments), then we will possess the peace of God in the present world (imperfectly because only in our souls) and in the next world (perfectly because it will be universal for all souls in paradise).

    So, going back to my first statement in the first sentence of this reply, I say that perfect, universal "period of peace" will definitely come AFTER the reign of Antichrist, when the new "world" to come (the New Earth, i.e. paradise) is opened up again supernaturally. However, I will add that this "period of peace" (an imperfect glimpse) can be experienced by some faithful even BEFORE the reign of Antichrist ends (and before the return of Our Lord). But they will experience the "peace" only in their own souls if they are still living in the present world. It will never be universal throughout the present world in the souls of all men.

    I know I said a lot. And I probably did not say it well. Please let me know what I need to clarify.
    Logged

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #13 on: March 17, 2025, 05:22:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Angelus on March 17, 2025, 05:10:40 PM
    Okay. I agree with you that a "period of peace" defined as "a time of universal faith all over the world" cannot come AFTER the reign of Antichrist, if we define "the world" as our present world.

    But I want to make a distinction, there is our present "world" and there is the new "world" to come, described in Apocalypse 21 as the "New Heaven and New Earth."

    First, I think we agree that a "period of peace" defined as "a time of universal faith" all over the PRESENT world is impossible and heretical because that is a form of chiliasm or millenarianism. In our present world (or age), it is impossible to realize this kind of "peace" that is reserved only for "eternity." This "period of peace" can only happen after Satan (and sin and death) are finally defeated. That will not happen in our present material-temporal world.

    Chiliasm is wrong because it tries to bring an eternal reality (the "period of peace") into the present world. The error can be seen concretely in the false translation of the Gloria.

    Chiliastic: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

    Catholic:  "Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will."

    The Chilastics hope for an earthly peace in the present world. They seek to achieve it by being of "good will" toward other people. If we are kind and tolerant with one another, we can have peace in this present world. That is the Millenarian dream of heaven on earth. That is false teaching according to the true Catholic Faith.

    The Catholics, on the other hand, have always known that there is true peace only for those men who seek to do the will of God. This means if we keep the Commandments (the Greatest Commandment and love neighbor as ourselves, which perfects the Ten Commandments), then we will possess the peace of God in the present world (imperfectly because only in our souls) and in the next world (perfectly because it will be universal for all souls in paradise).

    So, going back to my first statement in the first sentence of this reply, I say that perfect, universal "period of peace" will definitely come AFTER the reign of Antichrist, when the new "world" to come (the New Earth, i.e. paradise) is opened up again supernaturally. However, I will add that this "period of peace" (an imperfect glimpse) can be experienced by some faithful even BEFORE the reign of Antichrist ends (and before the return of Our Lord). But they will experience the "peace" only in their own souls if they are still living in the present world. It will never be universal throughout the present world in the souls of all men.

    I know I said a lot. And I probably did not say it well. Please let me know what I need to clarify.
    thank you
    Logged

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Period of peace (question for angelus)
    « Reply #14 on: March 17, 2025, 09:09:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • So is the period of peace eternity?
    Logged
    Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
    « previous next »