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Author Topic: PCED Secretary: Avoid SSPX Masses Sacraments!  (Read 1667 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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PCED Secretary: Avoid SSPX Masses Sacraments!
« on: December 02, 2010, 12:35:18 PM »
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  • This insanity makes me long for the days of Cardinal Hoyos!

    My commentary is in boldface...

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/12/msgr-pozzo-on-three-years-of-summorum.html

    Interview with Ecclesia Dei Secretary on Three Years of Summorum Pontificuм
    by Gregor Kollmorgen


    The German Service of Vatican Radio today carries an interview with Msgr. Guido Pozzo, the Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, on the occasion of three years of Summorum Pontificuм. NLM will try to provide a full translation (if any of our readers would be willing to help, that would be greatly appreciated - email addressed can be found at the top of the left side bar). In the meantime, here are a few salient points:


    1. (When asked about resistence to the usus antiquior:) The old Rite of the Mass has a deep richness that needs not only to be respected, but also to be rediscovered, for the benefit of the liturgy, also as it is celebrated today. These prejudices and resistance have to be overcome by a change in the forma mentis, the disposition. A more adequate liturgical formation is needed.

    So the NO is lacking richness? How can celebration of another separate Rite of Mass benefit the NO Mass? Through osmosis? What kind of "liturgical formation" is needed for the NO? A Catholic "formation" will overcome an ambiguously quasi-Protestant Rite?

    2. (When asked whether interest in the usus antiquior is growing:) I would say growing. Also, because we observe that especially in the younger generations there is interest in and popularity of the old form of the Mass. And this is surprising news.

    That this is "surprising" to the Secretary says a lot. It shows that he would not expect young people to be interested. Thus his fundamental underestimating of the youth. This mindset is seen in those who think the youth can only be "lured" into the Church through rock Masses because they are too immature and stupid to appreciate the TLM.

    3. (When asked about numbers of faithful interested in the Extraordinary Form:) It is certainly clear, too, that the value of the Extraordinary Form of the Rite has nothing to do with numbers. Both forms are equal in value and dignity.

    When there is high demand for the TLM, numbers are "not important". If they WERE important, why it *might* just show people are dissatisfied with the NO, which is, of course, unthinkable! Therefore we must stress that both "forms" are EQUAL in value and dignity. Just as if we have "ten" of something and "five" of another, but we re-name the set of "ten" and call it "five" the two sets are then of equal value. (??) Why? Because we said so. Trust us..

    4. I am of the opinion that one should offer seminarians in the seminaries the opportunity to learn the celebration in the Extraordinary Form properly - not as an obligation, but as a possibility. Where possible, one could make use for the formation of the priests of those institutions which are under the jurisdiction of the Commission Ecclesia Dei and follow the traditional liturgical discipline.

    So, I'm for seminarians having the opportunity to learn how to say the TLM....in the institutions where they already learn how to say the TLM. ??

    5. In the letter to the bishops accompanying the motu proprio, Pope Benedict mentioned on the one hand the need to update the calendar of Saints, i.e. to insert the Saints proclaimed after 1962, and on the other hand that certain prefaces from the Missal of Paul VI should be incorporated in order to enrich the collection of the prefaces of the Missal of 1962. The Commission Ecclesia Dei has set up a study process to comply with the will of the Holy Father. Here one will soon, I think, arrive at a proposal, which will shortly be submitted to the Holy Father for approbation.

    ?!?! So get ready to celebrate the Feast of St. Josemaria in your local chapel. And get ready to hear enriching NO prefaces!

    6. I think we must also recognize that the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite offers a more extensive reading of Scripture than the Missal of 1962. Nevertheless, an amendment of the Missal of 1962 in this regard is not easy, because one has to keep in mind the relation between the biblical readings and the antiphons or responsories of the Roman breviary for that day. It bears recalling, too, however, that under Pope Pius XII a number of additional readings for the commons of Saints has been added. Therefore, one can not rule out a possible extension for the readings of the Mass. That does not mean, however, that one may as a bishop or priest celebrant subjectively and arbitrarily change the sequence of the Lectionary or mix the two forms, so that the character of both is lost.

    And here we go. The TLM, which had been protected from tinkering for 40+ years because Rome convinced people it had been replaced with the NO, now gets to be subjected to experimentation! So let's add some readings here, prefaces there, add some NO Saints, etc. etc. Soon the TLM will be unrecognizable as they make it their plaything.

    7. In light of these explanations (sc. in the letter to the bishops), it is clear that the Catholic faithful are urged to avoid participation in the Mass or the reception of the sacraments from a priest of the FSSPX, because they are canonically irregular.

    The icing on the cake! In other words, we must assimilate as many Traditionalists as we can into our orbit, then slowly corrupt their worship as we little by little modernize their liturgy along with preaching VCII theology at these Masses. For this to take place, these guinea pigs...I mean faithful..must not be allowed to think assistance at a real TLM at these "irregular" Chapels is to be approved of by God...I mean Rome...


    Offline Emerentiana

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    PCED Secretary: Avoid SSPX Masses Sacraments!
    « Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 01:21:05 PM »
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  • [/b]Old Mass is as important as New Mass?    There is only ONE Mass!  One of the Four Marks of the Catholic Church is that it it ONE..in Doctrine and Liturgy!


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    PCED Secretary: Avoid SSPX Masses Sacraments!
    « Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 07:21:32 PM »
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  • Does anyone care that the PCED plans on destroying the TLM and all Ecclesia Dei communities?

    Offline hollingsworth1

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    « Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 07:50:12 AM »
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  • Are you all aware that this same Guido Pozzo is one of five members of the team which the Holy See has fielded to participate in ongoing "discussions" with SSPX?  

    See http://wwwthollingsworth.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html

    Scroll down to for a brief description of each of Rome's participants.

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 08:00:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth1
    Are you all aware that this same Guido Pozzo is one of five members of the team which the Holy See has fielded to participate in ongoing "discussions" with SSPX?  

    See http://wwwthollingsworth.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html

    Scroll down to for a brief description of each of Rome's participants.


    No doubt Bp. Fellay and the other SSPX participators in the discussions are aware of Podo's mindset as well as the mindset of the other 4 team members appointed by the Neo-Vatican.



    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 08:28:17 AM »
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  • Pozzo = Bozo  :clown:

    First his ridiculous speech to the FSSP, now this?

    How in the world can one have a fruitful dialogue with this man?

    It looks like the words of ABL in '88 still stand...

    Quote
    We do not have the same outlook on a reconciliation. Cardinal Ratzinger sees it as reducing us, bringing us back to Vatican II. We see it as a return of Rome to Tradition. We don’t agree; it is a dialogue of death. I can’t speak much of the future, mine is behind me, but if I live a little while, supposing that Rome calls for a renewed dialogue, then I will put conditions. I shall not accept being in the position where I was put during the dialogue. No more.

    I will place the discussion at the doctrinal level: “Do
    you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who
    preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius
    IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis
    of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes
    and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire
    Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social
    reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you do not accept
    the doctrine of your predecessors, it is useless to talk!
    As long as you do not accept the correction of the
    Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these
    Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It
    is useless
    .”

    Thus, the positions will be clear. The stakes are not small. We are not content when they say to us, “You may say the traditional Mass, but you must accept the Council.” What
    opposes us is doctrine; it is clear.

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 08:32:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus


    How in the world can one have a fruitful dialogue with this man?



    It is not hard to see that it is not possible!

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 08:45:56 AM »
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  • cant talk to idiots....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 08:52:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: Belloc
    cant talk to idiots....


    Advice I wish I had gotten long ago and heeded:

    Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 08:56:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus


    This insanity makes me long for the days of Cardinal Hoyos!



    Bad memories can fade.

    That's like wishing for JP2 rather than B16.

    They are all baddies in their own unique ways, who all are part the same agenda.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 08:58:00 AM »
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  • Modernists are always deceitful.  Trying to argue over details with them is a game, they will try to wriggle out of everything with ambiguous speech and evasions.  

    What is necessary is to confront them on their dishonesty, at that point, they will kick you off a forum or they will act as though you lost your cool.  But forever trifling with them gives them legitimacy.  There's a very serious risk that believing in the necessity of defending modernists leads to modernism.  It leads to defending a self-contradicting position, it leads to keeping ideas secret, trying to make the laity believe and disbelieve in their prelates the same time.  That becomes its own kind of modernism.


    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 09:20:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Quote from: Belloc
    cant talk to idiots....


    Advice I wish I had gotten long ago and heeded:

    Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.



    true, I stil ltruggle to do the argue bit, as often I see something wrong or injust and want to go all  :argue: :good-shot: :cussing: :soapbox:

    then recall B-W warning
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Alexandria

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    « Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 12:21:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Quote from: Belloc
    cant talk to idiots....


    Advice I wish I had gotten long ago and heeded:

    Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.



     :wink: