Author Topic: RICHARD CUSHING,JESUITS HERESY : BAPTISM OF DESIRE IS EXPLICIT (Read 2198 times)

LionelAndrades · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2010, 09:32:19 AM »

Rauol76

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but from the external evidence, a catechumen has expressed the wish to be baptized, and if he dies would qualify for baptism of desire unless he underwent some kind of internal secret apostasy.

Yes in certain cases there could be such a person who 'qualifies' for the baptism of desire. If he has a genuine baptism of desire and is saved God will decide.
However we cannot say that anyone in particular has the baptism of desire. So everyone with no exception (Protestants and non-Christians) need to enter the Catholic Church(explictly) to be saved from Hell.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2010, 07:29:51 PM »

Welcome to the site, Lionel...

As an aside, you might want to refrain from your ALL CAPS way of titling and opening threads. Imbalanced use of emphasis leads to the exact opposite of the desired effect. Godspeed :)

umblehay anmay · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2010, 08:08:27 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Yeah, I suggested that somewhere up there. Whatever. The Church situation doesn't need to be any more complicated than it already is and "explicit baptism of desire" is a venerable and accepted theological concept. I don't know if Lionel is trying to be clever, but everyone knows what "explicit baptism of desire" means. It doesn't mean we know for sure if anyone qualifies, because we don't see their heart at the moment of death; but from the external evidence, a catechumen has expressed the wish to be baptized, and if he dies would qualify for baptism of desire unless he underwent some kind of internal secret apostasy.

Why were the Church Fathers so contrary to this opinion?

LionelAndrades · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2010, 08:13:08 AM »

Umbleha

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Raoul76 said:
Yeah, I suggested that somewhere up there. Whatever. The Church situation doesn't need to be any more complicated than it already is and "explicit baptism of desire" is a venerable and accepted theological concept. I don't know if Lionel is trying to be clever, but everyone knows what "explicit baptism of desire" means. It doesn't mean we know for sure if anyone qualifies, because we don't see their heart at the moment of death; but from the external evidence, a catechumen has expressed the wish to be baptized, and if he dies would qualify for baptism of desire unless he underwent some kind of internal secret apostasy.

Why were the Church Fathers so contrary to this opinion?

For the Church Fathers there was no such thing as an explicit baptism of desire. The baptism of desire is always implicit by its very nature.
The Church Fathers recognised there could be in certain circuмstances someone who could in principle be saved with the baptism of desire, but they never could claim it was explicit.
When the Popes and Councils gave us the ex cathedra teaching extra ecclesiam nulla salus they knew that there could be no 'explicit'cases of the baptism of desire that we know of.
However since the Boston Case the media has created this concept of the explicit baptism of desire and the revolution of Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium 16.
It is irational and one does not have to know theology to see through this deception.
In Christ
Lionel