Author Topic: Paul VI the only anti-pope? (Read 4393 times)

Jamie · « **on:** June 19, 2010, 04:19:19 PM »

I was just thinking about the situation in the Church and I wondered if it might be possible that Paul VI WAS an anti-Pope (I am not a sede). If he was, it invalidated VII and all of the modern errors and while the Popes who followed him could still be valid Popes (even if Paul was an anti-Pope) most of their errors would be due to a mistaken belief that he wasn't - thus feeling that they had to accept VII as valid.

Any thoughts?

roscoe · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:16:48 PM »

The only one of the 1958 cardinals that can say he was validly elected is Siri.

Jamie · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:52:27 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

The only one of the 1958 cardinals that can say he was validly elected is Siri.

And yet he is the one who said publicly that he was not. So if he was the real pope - he was worse than the modernists for doing nothing about it.

roscoe · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2010, 06:57:35 PM »

The Siri thesis is not w/o problems. It is just that v2, 'sede' and sspx versions have more problems. Could you cite the source for your above remark?

roscoe · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2010, 07:04:58 PM »

Someone was elected when the white smoke appeared. Are you prepared to say that the smoke was released by mistake? If not what do U think happened?

Jamie · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2010, 07:19:45 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Someone was elected when the white smoke appeared. Are you prepared to say that the smoke was released by mistake? If not what do U think happened?

As the conclave was closed I don't know what happened. All I know is that Siri wasn't elected. If he was - and was therefore the valid Pope, he was a bad one who did equally nothing to help the situation when it began to collapse the Church - he even begged Archbishop Lefebvre not to consecrate the Bishops.

In researching for the answer to your other question (about the source of Siri himself denying it) I have discovered that I am wrong on that point and I withdraw it and apologise. In reality, Cardinal Siri refused to speak about the conclave.

Trinity · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2010, 07:29:02 PM »

Well, if the ensueing popes are valid, they are still leading everyone to heresy and hell.

roscoe · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:42:23 PM »

Quote from: Jamie

Quote from: roscoe
Someone was elected when the white smoke appeared. Are you prepared to say that the smoke was released by mistake? If not what do U think happened?

As the conclave was closed I don't know what happened. All I know is that Siri wasn't elected. If he was - and was therefore the valid Pope, he was a bad one who did equally nothing to help the situation when it began to collapse the Church - he even begged Archbishop Lefebvre not to consecrate the Bishops.

In researching for the answer to your other question (about the source of Siri himself denying it) I have discovered that I am wrong on that point and I withdraw it and apologise. In reality, Cardinal Siri refused to speak about the conclave.

So he did not deny that he was elected and he was not partial to SSPX. Mo is that both of these points make the Siri thesis even stronger.

Of course the conclave was closed-- they all have been since 1914. Then how do you know Gregory XVII was not elected?

Question not answered-- are you prepared to say the first white smoke was an accident. ?

Let us not forget also that Card Siri was the known favorite of Pius XII(XIII)

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:49:02 PM »

Pope Formosus is considered by some to have been an anti-Pope. He and Paul VI would be the only ones that would qualify. There are lots of rumors about Paul VI, and which one is true is un-certain. One rumor even states Paul VI was a freemason. Regardless of which rumor is true, I can say that Paul VI may very well have been the worst Pope we've ever had.

roscoe · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:49:35 PM »

It is entirely possible that Gregory XVII was not a good Pope but he isn't as bad as Leo X and Clement VII.

Mo is that Paul VI(6) is an actual anti-pope. How can Paul VI(6) and Formosus be the only anti-popes when the Church has formally declared approx 40 of them?

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:51:48 PM »

It must be remembered that Siri signed all the docuмents
of V2,and imposed the new mass, and the reformed
sacraments in his diocese.
Where was the resistance from Siri, I have not read of
any.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:54:17 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

It is entirely possible that Gregory XVII was not a good Pope but he isn't as bad as Leo X and Clement VII.

Mo is that Paul VI(6) is an actual anti-pope. How can Paul VI(6) and Formosus be the only anti-popes when the Church has formally declared approx 40 of them?

Name some others, I don't remember any other possible anti-Popes.

roscoe · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:57:45 PM »

There are approx 40 of them and they are easy to find with a search engine. I have just looked at two of them and Formosus is not to be found.

There is a book by John Wilcock-- Popes and Anti-popes.

roscoe · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2010, 09:03:01 PM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

It must be remembered that Siri signed all the docuмents
of V2,and imposed the new mass, and the reformed
sacraments in his diocese.
Where was the resistance from Siri, I have not read of
any.

I have said that the Siri thesis is not w/o probs, but just the same-- could the source of the above info be sited? Especially the allegation that he signed all of the v2 docuмents. I am aware that he did submit to the new mass at one point. Acc to TCW, he was under duress.

roscoe · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2010, 09:31:12 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

There are approx 40 of them and they are easy to find with a search engine. I have just looked at two of them and Formosus is not to be found.

There is a book by John Wilcock-- Popes and Anti-popes.

By two of them I of course mean two sources that can be found with a search engine.