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Author Topic: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding  (Read 8418 times)

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Offline Dolores

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Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2017, 02:50:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Amakusa on August 27, 2017, 09:54:56 AM
    The comparison is pointless, Ladislaus, because the case is not the same at all. The children without proper reason do not go to hell but to limbo, and they will live on the surface of the earth at the end of the world. While adults have reason and will go either to hell or to heaven. Therefore the eventuality is not the same at all, you cannot make this comparison
    This is not correct.  All souls will either end up in Heaven or Hell, with Limbo being a region of Hell. In Limbo, unbaptized infants will not expierence any suffering, but will instead expierence natural happiness. Nevertheless, it is still Hell in that they will not expierence the Beatific Vision.

    It was the same with the Limbo of the Fathers.  The just who died before Christ went to Hell, and resided in Limbo until The Harrowing of Hell on Holy Saturday when Christ "descended to Hell" and took those souls to Heaven.
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    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
    « Reply #46 on: August 28, 2017, 02:15:56 AM »
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    • At the end the children will be released from Limbo and will live on the surface of the purified earth. See Sister of the Nativity.
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    Offline Dolores

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    Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
    « Reply #47 on: August 29, 2017, 08:24:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Amakusa on August 28, 2017, 02:15:56 AM
    At the end the children will be released from Limbo and will live on the surface of the purified earth. See Sister of the Nativity.
    Regardless of whatever vision a person may have had, I have a hard time accepting the position that any souls will be released from Hell at some point.  I'm pretty sure it is de fide that if a soul goes to Hell, it is for eternity.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
    « Reply #48 on: August 29, 2017, 08:27:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: Dolores on August 29, 2017, 08:24:51 AM
    Regardless of whatever vision a person may have had, I have a hard time accepting the position that any souls will be released from Hell at some point.  I'm pretty sure it is de fide that if a soul goes to Hell, it is for eternity.
    You are correct, hell lasts forever because God is eternal.

    ...Intrinsic in the idea of hell is it's everlastingness. One cannot conceive of a punishment sufficient for those who have defied God all their lives, till their deaths, and who have simply refused to accept God in His sovereignty and refused to do His will. It is altogether contrary, repugnant to reason that there would not be a punishment. This punishment has to last forever simply because these individuals, if hell did not last forever, would have beaten God. They would have defied Him and gotten away with it.  
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
    « Reply #49 on: August 29, 2017, 12:36:59 PM »
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    • Limbo and hell are two different things...
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    Offline Dolores

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    Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
    « Reply #50 on: August 29, 2017, 01:27:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Amakusa on August 29, 2017, 12:36:59 PM
    Limbo and hell are two different things...
    As I mentioned above, no, they are not.  Limbo is a region of Hell.

    "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."
    -Session 6 of the Council of Florence

    Therefore, unbaptized baptized infants who die in original sin alone go to Hell.  We refer to it as "Limbo," but it is still Hell.
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    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
    « Reply #51 on: August 29, 2017, 02:35:27 PM »
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    • As a woman you have no ability in theology, and it is the teaching of the Church that women should not take part in theological debates.

    Firstly, the Church has never defined where Limbo are located. Secondly, the council of Florence is often quoted by anticlerical men who try to convey the idea that according to the Church doctrine, all those who die in original sin are punished in hell, even if they have committed no actual sin during their lives; the problem is that this idea is wrong and since Saint Thomas the theologians do not claim anymore that children who die in original sin are punished in hell. This idea is blasphemous and disgusting, and yet it was prevailing before the time of St. Thomas.

    Most traditionalists do not understand well the infallibility of the Church, especially laymen. The purpose of the Council of Florence was not to define any doctrine about Limbo, as this guy explains here. The purpose of this sentence was only to define a particular point regarding the timing of the judgment; therefore it has a broad sense, and it is not meant to settle the issue of Limbo.


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