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Author Topic: Paul VI "canonized"  (Read 4348 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Paul VI "canonized"
« on: October 14, 2018, 10:16:44 PM »
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #1 on: October 15, 2018, 08:03:58 AM »
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    • I understand that there were two miracles attributed to his intercession.
     
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #2 on: October 15, 2018, 08:25:01 AM »
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    • ... and incredibly strong point of evidence in favor of sedevacantism.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #3 on: October 15, 2018, 08:26:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on October 15, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
    I understand that there were two miracles attributed to his intercession.
     

    Many saints have been incorrupt after death, but within hours after his death, Montini's corpose could have been smelled from Sicily if the wind were blowing just right.
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    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #4 on: October 15, 2018, 08:50:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on October 14, 2018, 10:16:44 PM
    Paul VI "canonized" on Oct. 14
    Another NO saint for the NO church. Add this one to the multitude of NO saints. Have they made Luther a NO saint yet?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #5 on: October 15, 2018, 10:08:41 AM »
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    • New Churchers are saying that Paul VI is not a saint and that the canonization process is crap.  The author of the article even criticizes JPII's canonization. 

    https://onepeterfive.com/paul-vi-not-saint/


    A further dive into canonizations and the complexities of their authority:
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-authority-of-canonisations-do-all.html
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 10:47:06 AM »
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    • I'll take the teaching of St. Thomas and the universal consensus among theologians, who all teach that canonizations are infallible, differing only about the theological note to be assigned to the teaching ... over the musings of some Novus Ordite.

    So you're getting incredibly desperate in promoting the gratuitous opinion of a random Novus Ordite over the teaching of St. Thomas.
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 11:02:39 AM »
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    • http://radtradthomist.chojnowski.me/2018/10/our-darkest-hour-with-canonization-of.html

    From Dr. Chojnowski,

    A Fake Saint with an Imposter Nun.
    If We Prove the Imposter Nun We Prove the Fake Saint Who Perpetrated the Fraud. No Saint Could Have Done That.


    I really thought that we would be shouting from the rooftops on the day in which Giovanni Battista Montini would be declared a "saint" by NewChurch. The man who tried to abolish the Mass and replace it with an Low Church Anglican/Presbyterian Service, the one who promulgated the heresies of Vatican II, the teachings that the Catholic Church was not identical with the Church of Christ but that the Church of Christ included other "Christian" denominations, the one who changed EVERY SACRAMENT to conform to the New Theology which denied the distinction between Nature and Grace, the one who injected Pentecostalism into the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the one who allowed catechisms that were explicitly heretical and which destroyed the faith of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS, the one who issued a General Instruction to the New Mass that failed to mention that the Mass was a sacrifice, the one who said that the United Nations was the last hope for mankind, the one who tried to crush out of existence Tradition and ordered the suppression of the SSPX and, indeed, all of Catholic Tradition, the one who is called a Mason by many and one who is called a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ by even more, the one who was responsible for giving the Soviets the heads up as to who were the priestly and episcopal "infiltrators" behind the Iron Curtain, the one who betrayed Cardinal Mindszenty, the one who forced the New Theology and Maritainianism down the throat of the Church, etc.

     
     
     
    You could really keep going on. All of these things mentioned above have been surrounded by gold --- like the figures in a Byzantine icon -- to indicate that they are now "unchangeable" and, in fact, "blessed." To say otherwise is, really, to be going against the "Church." I don't think that we realize this yet. To not break with this abomination, whose foundations were laid in the 1960s, is to submit to it or to "apostatize" by "stepping away" from it. One must perform some act by which to separate yourself from this thing whose fraudulancy and deception is more fully manifested each day. The Church is not a club, it is an ecclesia united by ONE FAITH. Paul VI did more than any other man in human history to destroy the faith in people's hearts. Only through a special grace from God do any of us still have the authentic Catholic Faith of the Ages AFTER the career of Paul VI. 
     
     
     
    Let's just say it. He would have destroyed it. HE WANTED TO DESTROY IT. 
     
     
     
    This is our darkest hour. The only time that shall be worse is when the Antichrist will come. The Chastisement will not be spiritually dark, because it will punish men for their sins and open up to them again the light of faith and grace --- and true nature. The enemies of the Church have "canonized" exactly what we have been fighting against all of our lives. They have declared US TO BE THE ENEMY. Let us take them up on it. Let us BE their enemies. Let us be the nastiest son's of a gun that they have ever had to deal with. In the Divine Order of Things, it is EITHER US OR THEM. Either they will destroy, humiliate (that was today), and castrate Catholic Orthodoxy and Tradition, or we will drive heresy and apostasy from the Temple of the Lord. We will fight you on the beaches...we will never surrender. Let loose the dogs of war!
     
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    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2018, 11:07:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 15, 2018, 08:25:01 AM
    ... and incredibly strong point of evidence in favor of sedevacantism.

    So only five Popes had ever been canonized in the whole history of the Church (that is almost two millennia!); but here comes the ʝʊdɛօ- freemasonic sect currently occupying the Vatican, "canonizing" each and every one of the conciliar impostors, as if it was nothing.

    Very suspicious.  
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 11:20:30 AM »
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    I'll take the teaching of St. Thomas and the universal consensus among theologians, who all teach that canonizations are infallible, differing only about the theological note to be assigned to the teaching ... over the musings of some Novus Ordite.

    So you're getting incredibly desperate in promoting the gratuitous opinion of a random Novus Ordite over the teaching of St. Thomas.

    The point is, the new process is not the same as the one St Thomas was commenting on.  So, it's an apples-oranges comparison and the new process opens the door for discussion/gray area/doubt, which is the conclusion being reached by many, even in the novus ordo.
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    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 11:24:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 15, 2018, 11:20:30 AM
    The point is, the new process is not the same as the one St Thomas was commenting on.  So, it's an apples-oranges comparison and the new process opens the door for discussion/gray area/doubt, which is the conclusion being reached by many, even in the novus ordo.

    It is not about the process; but the papal approbation (Papal Decree of Canonization) which makes the canonizations infallible. The Holy See is free from error when issuing a Decree of Canonization. 

    This has been said many times, but you don't want to believe it.
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 11:31:52 AM »
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    • It's a mid-level infallibility (which is based on the understanding of infallibility PREVIOUS to Vatican I's definition) which is not dogmatic but only a "certainty of faith".  To say that canonizations are infallible without qualifying and explaining that it's a different infallibility than dogma is being untruthful.

    As you said:  This has been said many times, but you don't want to believe it.
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    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 11:44:05 AM »
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    It's a mid-level infallibility

    It is the first time I have ever heard of the notion of "mid-level" infallibility.

    Something is either free from error or it is not. If the mere possibility of error do exist, then that something is NOT infallible. When the Church declares someone to be saint then it must be true that the person is in Heaven, at least since the date of canonization.

    Beatifications are not infallible, for example. They lack the note of universality. It is within the realm of possibility (not likely, but still possible) that a Decree of Beatification of someone is erroneous. In the case of Canonizations of Saints, however, the Holy See is infallible. This means, absolutely free from all error.

     
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 11:44:15 AM »
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    It is not about the process; but the papal approbation (Papal Decree of Canonization) which makes the canonizations infallible. The Holy See is free from error when issuing a Decree of Canonization. 
    Your opinion.
    Post some Church docuмents which say that the papal decree is all that matters.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Paul VI "canonized"
    « Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 11:46:13 AM »
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    It is the first time I have ever heard of the notion of "mid-level" infallibility.
    Go over to the other thread on canonizations (which you've also posted on) and READ THE WHOLE THREAD (don't be like Meg and jump into a discussion willy-nilly).  It is explained very clearly that St Thomas and others held different levels of infallibility exist.
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