Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders  (Read 1792 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Boloki

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders
« on: September 22, 2013, 11:45:00 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have seen it claimed that Paul 6 "abolished" the major order of subdeacon and all of the minor orders (acolyte, exorcist (huh? aren't there still novus ordo exorcists?), lector, and porter) in his docuмent Pontificalis Romani.

    Well i read it and there was no mention of any abolishing of these things; there was no mention of them at all.

    Was the abolishing by way of not mentioning them or de facto, by simply not using them anymore? Or is there somewhere any docuмent or something which clearly says these orders are now out?

    This is of course very significant because of the following:

    "...from the very beginning of the Church the names of the following orders and the duties proper to each one are known to have been in use, namely those of the subdeacon, acolyte, exorcist, rector, and porter, though not of equal rank; for the subdiaconate is classed among the major orders by the Fathers and the sacred Councils, in which we also read very frequently of other inferior orders" (Council of Trent, Session 23, Ch. 2; Denz. 958)

    "If anyone says that besides the priesthood there are in the Catholic Church no other orders, both major and minor, by which as by certain grades, there is an advance to the priesthood: let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Session 23, Canon 2; Denz. 962)


    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4620/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders
    « Reply #1 on: September 22, 2013, 11:58:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have never heard that Montini actually took action to formally abolish the minor orders; but rather, Montini issued new docuмents for the Rites of Orders for the Novus Ordo sect and the minor orders are simply absent.  

    The Novus Ordo sect simply does not ordain anyone below deacon because there is no Novus Ordo rite for doing so.

    They do have offices of exorcist.  Anyone can be a lector or porter (i.e., usher or greeter) acolyte (i.e., alter server); but these are no longer minor orders that are stages towards the advancement to the priesthood.


    Offline Boloki

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 85
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders
    « Reply #2 on: September 22, 2013, 12:07:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I see.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4671
    • Reputation: +2624/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders
    « Reply #3 on: September 22, 2013, 09:43:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The novus ordo kills Catholicism with ambiguous omission.

    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4119
    • Reputation: +1258/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders
    « Reply #4 on: September 06, 2014, 07:51:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Paul VI did not abolish all the minor orders (which renamed "ministries"); see his Ministeria Quaedam (15 Aug. 1972), in which he retains the reader and acolyte but abolishes the others, porter & exorcist, because apparently those aren't "adapted to contemporary needs"!
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline modofac

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 57
    • Reputation: +2/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Paul 6 "abolished" subdeacon and minor orders
    « Reply #5 on: September 16, 2014, 03:31:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I do not think they were abolished in any formal way, since FSSP priests still ascend through the minor orders.