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Author Topic: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist  (Read 3467 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2022, 12:25:41 PM »
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  • FWIW, all the Bennyplenists I've ever heard speak to the issue give reasons such as Sean listed (from Coffin).  I've never heard one say, "it's because he's more conservative" or "he freed the Latin Mass."

    Coffin’s list, not mine 
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #16 on: February 11, 2022, 12:26:12 PM »
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  • Lad and Matthew-

    The 7 pieces of evidence are from COFFIN, not me.

    They are posted by him at the link Lad posted in the OP.
    Bump
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #17 on: February 11, 2022, 12:27:17 PM »
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  • Right, I understand.  I'm just reacting to the comment he made.

    Roger that; we’re all posting at the same time
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #18 on: February 11, 2022, 12:27:53 PM »
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  • So Bergoglio is in fact, by being so over the top, exposing the entire conspiracy ... as that one prophecy indicated would happen "about 12 years after the millennium has passed) ... Bergoglio took office in early 2013.
    Is this the spurious St. Malachy prophecy, or something else?
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #19 on: February 11, 2022, 12:28:36 PM »
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  • Here’s how I would appraise Coffin’s 7 pieces of evidence:

    1) Neither here not there;

    2) A canonical defect would be “healed in the root” by Francis’s acceptance (Billot);

    3) Immaterial;

    4) False: He is Cardinal Ratzinger (His Eminence is his proper title);

    5) See #2;

    6) He is making an argument of fact.  What exactly is his argument to support this claim??

    7) See #2.

    Overall, a very weak list.  The only possibility I can see is demonstrating #6 (but nobody in the conciliar church has made this claim thus far).
    Bump
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline PAT317

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #20 on: February 11, 2022, 12:30:36 PM »
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  • Coffin’s list, not mine

    That's why I wrote "(from Coffin)".

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #21 on: February 11, 2022, 12:31:42 PM »
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  • That's why I wrote "(from Coffin)".
    Ah, my bad.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #22 on: February 11, 2022, 12:35:00 PM »
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  • Haven't watched the vid, but taking the summary at face value, I don't think it's as honest as it could be. Face it, if Bergo was like JP2 in doctrine, people like Coffin wouldn't be asking questions or drawing conclusions. The impetus for all this (perfectly justified) hand-wringing is the fact that Bergo can't breathe without uttering something bizarrely unorthodox or outright heretical. THAT is why Coffin and others are Bennyvacantist, despite whatever lawyerish explanations they'll provide. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #23 on: February 11, 2022, 01:30:57 PM »
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  • Do Bennyvacantists truly think there was no Crisis in the Church during the reign of Pope Benedict? Why didn't they give up their Trad chapels and go back to their local parishes?

    They probably did -- because they weren't really TRADS, didn't have any illicit chapels to begin with, and were only after the "Latin Mass" which Pope Benedict made much more available at their local parishes.

    In short, Bennyvacantism is an INDULT phenomenon, and the logical result of the error of having any truck with the Conciliar Church, seeking permission for your birthright which is to attend the Tridentine Mass, nourish your Faith and/or save your soul.
    The then Fr Ratzinger was a suited radical at V2, and while he did repent somewhat when he saw the disorder of student protest at the end of the sixties, his theology is still formed around V2. When he became Pope he did at least revise the ecuмenical meeting at Assisi so it was no longer a pagan prayer meeting, and he fixed ruled to defrock perv priests, which Francis temporarily stymied. I would say that diocesan traditionalists were a thing, variously using priests with the Bugnini indult to offer their private Mass which they happened to attend, priests who often assisted the SSPX. Fr Michael Cresswell was one who helped get the SSPX in Ireland off the ground. Fr Alan Wilders was another diocesan priest who helped the SSPX. Later he helped found St. Patrick's Academy, Islandeady, a boarding school in Mayo. When the diocesan traditional Mass resumed in Ireland in 1984, it was not a matter of a priest having to wrack his brain to recall to how offer the Mass for priests were offering it wherever a room could be hired. Some were SSPX, some friends of it, others diocesan or Order. That said, I don't think Patrick Coffin is a hardbitten, long in the tooth, diocesan trad, just a usual grifter.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #24 on: February 11, 2022, 01:36:44 PM »
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  • Bene-vacantists are one scandal away from recognizing there is no pope. They aren't grounded in what a true Papacy is.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #25 on: February 11, 2022, 01:55:25 PM »
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  • Bene-vacantists are one scandal away from recognizing there is no pope. They aren't grounded in what a true Papacy is.
    They'll be in a bind once the Rat kicks the bucket
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #26 on: February 11, 2022, 02:58:10 PM »
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  • Sean, you gave some rational reasons for "Bennyvacantism". However, the Indulters who accept that position aren't going by any of those reason, but rather the reason I gave:

    Pope Benedict freed the "Latin Mass" somewhat. For them, there's no Crisis in the Church, just a hiccup in the implementation of Vatican II. "Vatican II has never been truly implemented" and all that rubbish.

    If they have the Latin Mass, they are ONE HUNDRED percent happy. See, I wouldn't be. Not until the FAITH ITSELF is safe again in Rome.
    I also think this is the bottom line: Summorum Pontificuм.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #27 on: February 11, 2022, 03:05:21 PM »
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  • FWIW, all the Bennyplenists I've ever heard speak to the issue give reasons such as Sean listed (from Coffin).  I've never heard one say, "it's because he's more conservative" or "he freed the Latin Mass."
    But would they give any of these other reasons if there was no Summorum Pontifcuм?  I strongly doubt it.

    These folks will jump right back onto the Conciliar train if a Benny XVII is elected.

    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #28 on: February 11, 2022, 03:10:10 PM »
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  • Bene-vacantists are one scandal away from recognizing there is no pope. They aren't grounded in what a true Papacy is.
    If the revelations about his time as a diocesan bishop don't dent him, they might decide on revelations over his time at the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. While action against Maciel and others were likely constrained by JP2, it could look bad if someone was unaware of that context.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Patrick Coffin goes Bennyvacantist
    « Reply #29 on: February 11, 2022, 03:15:12 PM »
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  • They'll be in a bind once the Rat kicks the bucket

    The "Rat" isn't going "to kick the bucket" until after the following happens (Jeremiah 52):

    Quote
    31 And it came to pass in the seven and thirtieth year of the captivity, of Joachin king of Juda, in the twelfth month, the five and twentieth day of the month, that Evilmerodach king of Babylon, in the first year of his reign, lifted up the head of Joachin king of Juda, and brought him forth out of prison. 32 And he spoke kindly to him, and he set his throne above the thrones of the kings that were with him in Babylon. 33 And he changed his prison garments, and he ate bread before him always all the days of his life. 34 And for his diet a continual provision was allowed him by the king of Babylon, every day a portion, until the day of his death, all the days of his life.

    Benedict XVI is Joachin. The 40 years of "the exile/captivity" started in July 1988 with the Lefebvre "excommunications." The "seven and thirtieth year" means the period after the completion of 36 years but before the completion of 37 years, which would be from July 2024 to June 2025. The twelfth month refers to the month of Adar in the Hebrew calendar, rather than the Gregorian calendar. So the date of the event described in Jeremiah 52:31-34, under my assumptions, would be March 25, 2025, the Feast of the Annunciation. 

    However, the precise date is not critical. Accepting the calendar uncertainties, the date for Benedict's restoration will be in the near future. A few years from now at most. 

    You can triangulate all of the dates referred to by using three sources: the 70 years in Jeremias 25-29/Daniel 9, the 40 years of the captivity/exile in Jeremias, and the years in the reign of Sedecias in Ezechiel. The 70 years starts with John XXIII calling the Vatican II Council in January 1959. The 40 years starts with Lefebvre's excommunication in July 1988, and the years discussed in Ezechiel start with Bergoglio's anti-papacy in March 2013. All of those prophecies are connected, overlap and end in 2027-2028.