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Author Topic: Palmer de troya clergy  (Read 1718 times)

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Offline Centroamerica

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Palmer de troya clergy
« on: February 25, 2014, 08:06:47 AM »
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    • Does anyone know if the clergy ordained as priests at the Palmer de Troya are actually valid priests?

    Or better yet who recognizes and accepts them if anyone? Does anyone know which traditionalists groups accept as valid any clergy ordained at Palmar de troya?
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    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Palmer de troya clergy
    « Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 08:11:02 AM »
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    • Considering they're a non-Catholic sect, I don't know of any Catholics who approach them for sacraments.

    Because of this, I don't think most groups have a "stance" on the validity of their consecrations, except maybe the SSPV who would view them as invalid.
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    Palmer de troya clergy
    « Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 08:14:26 AM »
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    • Well I mean if one of their priests was ordained there in the early 80s and left because he did not agree with their heretical stance and the scandal etc......would it be possible to receive the sacraments from this priest? Would he be valid after having left and verbally upholding all Catholic dogma is it safe to get into that or what is the take?
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    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Palmer de troya clergy
    « Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 08:19:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: Centroamerica
    Well I mean if one of their priests was ordained there in the early 80s and left because he did not agree with their heretical stance and the scandal etc......would it be possible to receive the sacraments from this priest? Would he be valid after having left and verbally upholding all Catholic dogma is it safe to get into that or what is the take?


    Does he now belong to another traditional group?

    I personally wouldn't trust someone like that on my own.  There are charlatans who prey on trads.  I would want to see some significant traditional Catholics or traditional Catholic group accept his orders and incorporate him into their ranks.  

    But that's just me.  Like a lot of other things particular to our time, the Church doesn't really have a standard operating procedure for a case like this.
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 08:25:21 AM »
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    • Apparently Bishop Williamson was offered to monitor him for 3 years and not allow him to offer Mass during that time, but the person in question asked someone else regarding the rose cross issue and from there it went bad and he was never formally accepted by the resistance. I have spoken to all the witnesses on the issue. It appears he could have joined the resistance or may still even be able to but there were issues caused by people telling the resistance priests in the area the question he asked regarding the rose cross deal and from there there has been mild tensions ever since, but what I have wondered lately is regarding the validity. It appeared that Bishop Williamson May have accepted as valid, but I'm not sure. I wrote to Bishop Williamson about the issue and he responded but at that time the validity didn't really matter to me.
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 08:26:37 AM »
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    • What do you think?
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 08:33:38 AM »
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    • Obviously you have a doubt, so you must resolve it before approaching this priest.  
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    Offline AJNC

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    Palmer de troya clergy
    « Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 08:34:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Centroamerica
    What do you think?


    This website is run by a priest ordained in 1975 at Palmar de Troya. He lives alone in Australia says the TLM. You could also ask him!


    http://www.essan.org/SignumMagnum/Thuc_consecrations/thuc_consecrations.html

    Also check:

    http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Outline.html
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 08:35:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: AJNC
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    What do you think?


    This website is run by a priest ordained in 1975 at Palmar de Troya. He lives alone in Australia says the TLM. You could also ask him!


    http://www.essan.org/SignumMagnum/Thuc_consecrations/thuc_consecrations.html


    You could even do it via CI, this site is run by user "FrLuc."
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 08:38:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Obviously you have a doubt, so you must resolve it before approaching this priest.  


    Yes thank you, we never actually intended to approach the priest, he has built a huge monastery near by. It would be nice to know however that he has valid orders.
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    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 08:39:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: AJNC
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    What do you think?


    This website is run by a priest ordained in 1975 at Palmar de Troya. He lives alone in Australia says the TLM. You could also ask him!


    http://www.essan.org/SignumMagnum/Thuc_consecrations/thuc_consecrations.html

    Also check:

    http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Outline.html



    Thanks so much! Looks like I'm getting somewhere. I will check this out.

    If I can do it via CI......you mean the person who operates has a CI account?
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    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline AJNC

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    « Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 08:43:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: AJNC
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    What do you think?


    This website is run by a priest ordained in 1975 at Palmar de Troya. He lives alone in Australia says the TLM. You could also ask him!


    http://www.essan.org/SignumMagnum/Thuc_consecrations/thuc_consecrations.html


    You could even do it via CI, this site is run by user "FrLuc."


    Thanks!

    Personally, I dont have any problem with Palmar de Troya orders. But, PDT has truncated the TLM and has tampered with the Bible - at least that's what I have heard.
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 08:48:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: AJNC
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: AJNC
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    What do you think?


    This website is run by a priest ordained in 1975 at Palmar de Troya. He lives alone in Australia says the TLM. You could also ask him!


    http://www.essan.org/SignumMagnum/Thuc_consecrations/thuc_consecrations.html


    You could even do it via CI, this site is run by user "FrLuc."


    Thanks!

    Personally, I dont have any problem with Palmar de Troya orders. But, PDT has truncated the TLM and has tampered with the Bible - at least that's what I have heard.


    It was around the time of that that this priest left and after having spoken to him on several occasions it is certain that he upholds the dogmas of the Catholic faith. It is the validity of the ordination that is troublesome to me. I sent FrLuc a pm and checked out the blog. I guess it is difficult to know these things. I will wait and see if FrLuc responds.
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    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #13 on: February 25, 2014, 08:59:35 AM »
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    • I think that at least the original bishops / priests are unquestionably valid.  Archbishop Thuc consecrated their bishops, even before Dominguez claimed the papacy.  And these were extremely public consecrations assisted and witnessed by priests, so that not even the SSPV could call into question their validity.

    Now, I don't know whether or not they subsequently tampered with the ordination / consecration rites or not.

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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 11:11:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus
    I think that at least the original bishops / priests are unquestionably valid.  Archbishop Thuc consecrated their bishops, even before Dominguez claimed the papacy.  And these were extremely public consecrations assisted and witnessed by priests, so that not even the SSPV could call into question their validity.

    Now, I don't know whether or not they subsequently tampered with the ordination / consecration rites or not.



    That would appear to be the issue. If he was personally ordained by Thuc I wouldn't really worry about his orders.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).
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