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Author Topic: Outed Michael Voris throws stones at SSPX ,Fr.Mc Lucas protected by SSPX  (Read 1459 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


Offline Mega-fin

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  • I think the most interesting thing here is the Society admitting to working with the diocese 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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  • I'm not sure I could be much less interested in a pissing match between these two media outlets.  Both seem more interested in the politics of the matter.  The SSPX is much to glib in dismissing the whole matter, and CM is much too excited about the opportunity to throw dirt on the SSPX by using sensational and equivocating language.
    .
    Is this Catholic journalism?
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Ascetik

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  • I'm not sure I could be much less interested in a pissing match between these two media outlets.  Both seem more interested in the politics of the matter.  The SSPX is much to glib in dismissing the whole matter, and CM is much too excited about the opportunity to throw dirt on the SSPX by using sensational and equivocating language.
    .
    Is this Catholic journalism?
    I agree, the whole thing is pretty stupid to begin with. The SSPX isn't perfect, but I'm also not convinced they necessarily are doing anything wrong.
    Church Militant needs to chill out too, there are much more important issues to focus on then Fr. McLucas, who by all accounts was never found guilty of anything.
    I'm not saying all trad priests are saints, far from it, but creating focus on issues like these where there doesn't need to be any just further hurts the traditional community and CM should pick it's battles a little more wisely instead of trying to find dirt where there really isn't any.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • McLucas was never technically found guilty ... but so what?

    He was named in the PA Grand Jury Report and was publicly accused in a civil suit ... which he settled.

    SSPX mis-applies the Vatican regulations about publicly naming accused clerics until they have been found guilty.  This list was not published by CM nor any other Catholic organization but by the civil authorities.  So his name was already out there as a "credibly accused".  CM did not therefore damage the reputation of Fr. McLucas, since his reputation was already damaged due to the PA Grand Jury Report.

    Whoever penned this SSPX rebuttal needs a little refresher in Introductory Logic.

    Now, given that McLucas' reputation is already publicly in question, why would the SSPX having him working with them.  After all, he's not even a formal member of the SSPX.  Incredibly imprudent by the SSPX to do so.  Lots of evil has been perpetrated by sinful priests BEFORE they were technically found guilty.  Does an organization need to wait until several children have been sɛҳuąƖly assaulted before suspending them from active ministry?

    Even the Vatican regulations do not require that the credibly accused priests continue acting in the ministry ... just that the allegations should not be publicized until the priest is formally found guilty.  Such a priest and (and SHOULD) be quietly removed from ministry, and people told that he's on leave for personal reasons, until the matter be decided one way or the other.

    This is similar to the discussion we had about Father Marshall Roberts.  He sued a gentleman for damaging his reputation ... but his reputation was already bad and damaged long before the new allegations, so no harm was actually done.  SSPX simply should have responded to McLucas' offer of "help" with a polite "thanks, but no thanks."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • I was initially persuaded by the SSPX rebuttal....until reading the CM counter-rebuttal.

    Now I am not so sure:

    On the one hand, that Fr. McLucas has never publicly denied the acts, but instead sought to have the lawsuit dismissed due to the statute of limitations expiring, does not make him look very good.

    Then, when that strategy fails, he settled out of court, which makes him look even worse.

    On the other hand, all three of those actions (ie., the refusal to deny the allegations; the attempted dismissal because of the statute of limitations; the out of court settlement) could all plausibly have been -from a purely legal strategy- expedient maneuvers:

    1) His lawyers could have advised him that an early dismissal is his best and cheapest option (ie., having gone that route is not necessarily an implicit admission that “I did it, but you waited too long to do anything about it.”);

    2) Same thing for the out of court settlement: If his lawyers advised him that a long trial would bankrupt him and bring even more scandal and contempt, this too could simply have been an expedient solution rather than an implicit acknowledgment of guilt;

    3) As regards the lack of denial, such could have been interpreted as unrepentence, or construed as evidence of predation/illness, and once again become an expedient (non) response.

    Also, how is he going to deny that which he paid money to suppress?  Making a public denial is going to open the whole matter back up.

    Now I don’t know if any of 1-3 are true, but they are certainly plausible.

    But for all that, if the allegations were an elaborate fabrication, why didn’t Fr. McLucas go after the woman in court for defamation/libel, knowing what was at stake?  

    Perhaps for the same reasons mentioned above (ie., expediency)?

    All I can say is that it doesn’t look too good for Fr. McLucas, and I am very surprised the SSPX let him in the door with that kind of baggage, which they surely must have known about.

    I hope both the SSPX and the Resistance will be doing their due diligence on any and all refugees who come calling.

    And as mentioned earlier, none of this touched upon the fact that (unless it has happened very quietly in the last couple month), Fr. McLucas has never been certainly validly ordained, and given the current environment in Menzingen, he is unlikely to be.

    Does the District know something we don’t know, in order to stick its neck out like this for McLucas?

    In any case, per the CM response, it is clear the case of Fr. McLucas is much more credible than that of Fr. Perrone (entirely based upon a single allegation of a 40-year “repressed memory.”)

    In the vernacular, we call that “bovine feces” from someone looking to get paid.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • I was initially persuaded by the SSPX rebuttal....until reading the CM counter-rebuttal.

    Now I am not so sure:

    On the one hand, that Fr. McLucas has never publicly denied the acts, but instead sought to have the lawsuit dismissed due to the statute of limitations expiring, does not make him look very good.

    Then, when that strategy fails, he settled out of court, which makes him look even worse.

    On the other hand, all three of those actions (ie., the refusal to deny the allegations; the attempted dismissal because of the statute of limitations; the out of court settlement) could all plausibly have been -from a purely legal strategy- expedient maneuvers:

    1) His lawyers could have advised him that an early dismissal is his best and cheapest option (ie., having gone that route is not necessarily an implicit admission that “I did it, but you waited too long to do anything about it.”);

    2) Same thing for the out of court settlement: If his lawyers advised him that a long trial would bankrupt him and bring even more scandal and contempt, this too could simply have been an expedient solution rather than an implicit acknowledgment of guilt;

    3) As regards the lack of denial, such could have been interpreted as unrepentence, or construed as evidence of predation/illness, and once again become an expedient (non) response.

    Also, how is he going to deny that which he paid money to suppress?  Making a public denial is going to open the whole matter back up.

    Now I don’t know if any of 1-3 are true, but they are certainly plausible.

    But for all that, if the allegations were an elaborate fabrication, why didn’t Fr. McLucas go after the woman in court for defamation/libel, knowing what was at stake?  

    Perhaps for the same reasons mentioned above (ie., expediency)?

    All I can say is that it doesn’t look too good for Fr. McLucas, and I am very surprised the SSPX let him in the door with that kind of baggage, which they surely must have known about.

    I hope both the SSPX and the Resistance will be doing their due diligence on any and all refugees who come calling.

    And as mentioned earlier, none of this touched upon the fact that (unless it has happened very quietly in the last couple month), Fr. McLucas has never been certainly validly ordained, and given the current environment in Menzingen, he is unlikely to be.

    Does the District know something we don’t know, in order to stick its neck out like this for McLucas?

    In any case, per the CM response, it is clear the case of Fr. McLucas is much more credible than that of Fr. Perrone (entirely based upon a single allegation of a 40-year “repressed memory.”)

    In the vernacular, we call that “bovine feces” from someone looking to get paid.

    One more thing:

    Where the SSPX article is certainly correct is that Catholic morals compel us to give the benefit of the doubt, when such doubt exists (as it certainly does in both cases).

    That doesn’t mean I also have to leave my wife alone with him.

    Just that I can’t form a certain judgment regarding his evil, while other real possibilities and explanations exist.

    For me, the jury remains out on Fr. McLucas as regards the allegation, which was nevertheless deemed credible by his Archdiocese.

    There is a delta between credible and morally certain.

    But for me it is a non-issue, since my family has nothing to do with doubtfully ordained priests anyway.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Struthio

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  • Catholic morals compel us to give the benefit of the doubt, when such doubt exists [...]

    That doesn’t mean I also have to leave my wife alone with him.

    A judge has to give the benefit of the doubt. Everyone else should not. Catholic morals compel us to not give any benefit of the doubt but rather be wise as serpents.

    And that's what you do.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • A judge has to give the benefit of the doubt. Everyone else should not. Catholic morals compel us to not give any benefit of the doubt but rather be wise as serpents.

    And that's what you do.

    Rash judgments are sinful (often gravely) precisely because they form a definite affirmative opinion regarding the evil of another without sufficient evidence.

    Sufficient evidence would be that which rises to the point of moral certainty.

    And moral certainty cannot be had while other reasonable explanations persist (such as those mentioned above).

    In such cases, judgment must remain suspended (though you are prudent to be wise as serpents, as you say, in having your radar up when such allegations are in question, and acting accordingly).

    Any pre-conciliar manual on moral theology (of any moral system) references these teachings in discussions on rash judgments.

    It doesn’t mean you are obliged to judge the accused innocent, just that you are obliged not to judge him guilty until/unless such time
    as available evidence renders the accused morally certain of guilt.

    That is elementary justice, charity, and prudence all wrapped into one.

    I’m not going to overlook all that simply because the SSPX is going in with modernist Rome (that’s on them, but a rash judgment would be on me).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Struthio

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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    That doesn’t mean I also have to leave my wife alone with him.


    I still think that this is reasonable and fully according to Catholic morals. Also, one should warn others.

    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Francisco

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  • The SSPX is in full speed Novus Ordoization mode!

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • Why are the SSPX and the various Resistance groups so eager to offer a place to land for these stray-cat priests wandering around after they have been kicked out of the Novus Ordo for sɛҳuąƖ abuse?