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Offline Neil Obstat

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Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
« on: May 13, 2012, 04:31:16 AM »
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  • This material, below, is from notes dated 1977 (as explained on the source page at the bottom), but to a large extent, could have been written today. It was then 60 years after 1917, and it is now 95 years after. Sister Lucy was (arguably) still alive then, but she is most certainly dead now. She would have been our only natural means of verifying the real 3rd Secret's contents, but today, in her absence, we would have to rely on supernatural means of verification.

    (Personally, I believe that we will know the 3rd Secret when it is finally revealed because it will be the words of the Immaculate Virgin Mother of God, whose words have a power and efficacy all of their own, not to be mistaken. For example, postconcilar Modernists would never refer to the Canonized Traditional Latin Mass, the unclean spirit of Vatican II, the subjectivism of Modernist thinking or the bad orientation it gives to the Church.)

    Curiously, the "secrecy" theme applies in some way, to the "Doctrinal Preamble," and the Vatican's stern demand for no publication of same. In the words of the Professor, "The reason for a secret to be held back with this extraordinary care must be that it is extraordinarily harmful to the enemy. What secret could be so damaging to the enemy?"

    For if it is the errors of Russia affecting the thinking of Roman authorities, as would be the case if +Williamson is correct in his most recent EC, posted on this forum (and I suspect that he is), Prof. de Oliveira's suggestion regarding the possible content of the 3rd Secret could well apply in the present Preamble controversy: "...a weakened and disoriented Communism will lose its influence over public opinion, but it will be supported and re-installed by the Pope, Cardinals, countless Bishops, priests, and religious men and women. You must resist them!"

    If this is the case, or even if it is remotely the case, is it not worth thinking about, that perhaps we must resist any short-sighted "deal" for the SSPX?

    According to St. Alphonsus de Liguori, Doctor of the Church, there is no greater sin than the sin against faith. And so, "an enormous sin committed by mankind that becomes increasingly worse" could not be any more enormous if it were other than a sin against faith. These are terrible words, and if they apply to our negligence in resisting a bad deal for the SSPX, we ought to pay attention.


    Source


    Our Lady of Fatima – May 13

    Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

    From a certain point of view, the contemporary era is one of mysteries. The Second World War, for example, was a war of mysteries. No war has been so shrouded in mysteries than WWII. To cite only two examples:

    How can the fall of France to Germany be explained? France had built the supposedly impregnable Maginot Line, which was a kind of Chinese Wall to protect itself from any German invasion. Why didn’t the French people, one of the most intelligent and courageous peoples in the world, protect their borders with Belgium? But they did not, and the Germans invaded France from there. It is even more difficult to explain given that the Germans had already invaded France in WWI in exactly the same way, through Belgium.

    Another mystery surrounds the capture of Rudolph Hess on his way to Scotland. Hess was a Deputy Führer and considered the heir to Hitler. At a certain moment, the news reported that he was in a small plane flying over England and Scotland, the plane crashed, he parachuted out, and broke his leg on landing. Since he could not walk, he was captured. What was a man of the importance of Hess doing on such a dangerous flight, unprotected, at a time when England and Germany were at war? A mystery.

    127_Fatima_2.jpg - 34753 Bytes
    Another mystery of our era regards the Fatima message. At Fatima in 1917 Our Lady confided a secret message to Sister Lucy to be revealed to the world at a certain prescribed time. This secret message was linked to a public one, which she gave the three young seers. She confided the secret to Lucy, who was supposed to reveal it or give to others to reveal at a certain moment. It is a prodigiously important mission, to have a message from Our Lady. Our Lady wanted to warn mankind about some very important things. This was the reason for the secret.

    Our Lady left one of the seers on earth to be in charge of this secret and either speak out at the proper moment and make it known, or tell someone in authority that the moment to reveal it had arrived. I have never heard of anything like this in the 20 centuries of the History of the Church. A person received a message from Our Lady in 1917, and until today, 1977, 60 years later, the secret has not been revealed.

    During these 60 years, the decadence in customs predicted by Our Lady in Fatima has risen to an unimaginable degree. The Communism foreseen by Our Lady took power in Russia and spread throughout the world. And this enigmatic messenger has remained quiet. On one occasion, she did have some words to say. It was when a remarkable display of aureole borealis [it was not an aurora borealis at all, but a much more "mysterious" light of "unknown origin," just as Our Lady said it would be] was visible across Europe in 1938, a year before World War II began. When this occurred, Sister Lucy from her cloister in Spain spoke out and said that this was the sign given by God that a chastisement of mankind was imminent. Then, afterwards, again she was quiet. Time is passing, world events have reached a crucial stage, but she remains silent. It is a mystery hanging over the secret.

    What we can realize is that a message with these special conditions must be a very important one, a key-revelation of human history.

    Can one at least conjecture the content of this message? Nothing forbids one from doing so. There are certain indications that lead one to conclude that this secret is an addendum to the revelations of Fatima that are already known. Both messages were given on the same occasion, by the same person to the same person. Also, several parts of the known message of Fatima are not entirely clear and seem to require further explanation. Now then, a confidential addendum to a known message normally addresses the same topic. Someone who writes a letter and adds a post-scriptum usually touches on some aspect of the letter’s topic. The unity of the revelation of Our Lady induces one to suppose that this would be the case with regard to the message she gave.

    These are the topics addressed in the known message: an enormous sin committed by mankind that becomes increasingly worse; a chastisement being prepared for that sin. She foretold that if mankind would convert, then “Russia will be converted, and there will be peace. If not, Russia shall spread her errors throughout the world, promoting wars and persecution of the Church; the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.”

    127_FatimaSeers.jpg - 49365 Bytes

    Our Lady confided the secret message to Lucy, right
    We can see that Russia plays a decisive role in the message. It brings either the reward or the chastisement for mankind. Therefore, this part leads one to think that the secret also relates in some way to Russia and its errors, that is, Communism. You can see that there is a mystery about Russia. One could suppose the secret would give a word of clarification on it.

    The progressivists and revolutionaries do not like to speak about Fatima. Almost no progressivist priest gives a sermon on Fatima. There is a kind of tacit prohibition to speak about it. It seems they suspect that something in the secret would oppose their movement. Do they know the secret?

    It is currently said that the secret is given to each new Pope to read. So, the Pope knows it, and also has the right to reveal it to anyone he chooses. To whom would Paul VI possibly have given the secret to read? We can easily conjecture that it would not be to anyone on the right. He probably revealed it to elements of the left. So, one can suppose that Progressivism knows about it and does not want to speak about it.

    What we have, then, is this situation: Our Lady wants the secret to be revealed; her enemies want to keep it hidden. Why does Our Lady permit her adversaries to contradict her will? A mere glance from her would suffice, and all the devils would flee in terror. An Angel could appear to Sister Lucy and open the door of her convent like the Angel that opened the door of the prison of St. Peter, and order her: “Leave this place and announce the secret.” Why doesn't Our Lady exercise her power over the Devil? Why doesn’t God send an Angel to liberate Sister Lucy? Here we have another mystery. There is a mysterious design of God whereby He allows the Devil to obscure the light of Fatima.

    It is an invitation for the sons and daughters of Our Lady to try to understand the secret by a reasonable analysis. This is what we are doing here.

    Let me go a step further. The reason for a secret to be held back with this extraordinary care must be that it is extraordinarily harmful to the enemy. What secret could be so damaging to the enemy? What things, if said in 1917, could be harmful for the Church, and if said today, could cause the defeat of the enemies of the Church? The answer to this question can shed light on the secret’s content.

    In 1917 Our Lady could have told Lucy to reveal the secret at that time. But she did not, because this would have damaged the Church. So, in the secret is something that was harmful to the good then, and is harmful to the evil today. What would that be?

    A probable answer to this question could be the decadence that has entered the Catholic Hierarchy today as a chastisement of mankind. If this situation would have been revealed in 1917, it would have caused scandal and countless apostasies. But if it were revealed now, it could certainly damage Progressivism.

    Imagine if this were the secret:

        “My children, in the near future a time will come when a weakened and disoriented Communism will lose its influence over public opinion, but it will be supported and re-installed by the Pope, Cardinals, countless Bishops, priests, and religious men and women. You must resist them! To fight for the Papacy and the Hierarchy is to fight against the bad orientation they are giving the Church.”

    This could be the secret.

    Isn’t it true that this could produce an extremely healthy reaction among Catholics and in Russia that could change the situation? I certainly think so.

    127_OurLadyFatima.jpg - 46313 Bytes

    A mystery shrouds the Fatima secret
    How will the secret be revealed? Will Sister Lucy be the necessary messenger to reveal the secret? These are other mysteries. Our Lady told Jacinta that Sister Lucy would go to Heaven. I do not know if she has to reveal the secret, or if the secret could be revealed by another source. At any rate, her existence is extremely valuable to prevent a false secret from being presented as the true one. I think the enemies could very well invent a false secret. The only guarantee we have for this not to happen is her witness.

    Some time ago during Paul VI’s pontificate, a news item reported that a thief entered the Vatican and stole, among other things, the sealed envelope that contained the secret of Fatima from the special room where it was kept. As far as I know, the report was never denied. So it can be that the secret is no longer with Sister Lucy but somewhere else, with this thief. If this is true, then Our Lady can find a way for this envelope to be found and opened. This could be the atomic bomb of Our Lady. She would be reserving it to drop on the public at a certain moment. We should ask her to use this weapon she has held in reserve for so long.

    In one of his famous dreams, St. John Bosco saw the enemy entering the Vatican; the Pope, followed by a multitude of Bishops, priests, religious men and women were leaving the Vatican, immersed in a cloud of smoke that became increasingly dense. The Pope was acting like a mad man in the dense fog of smoke. Then, an Angel appeared and spoke to the Pope, advising him to fight against the invading enemy. The Pope followed the counsel and returned to the Vatican. The smoke disappeared, and the enemy was defeated.

    One is induced to ask if this dream has a symbolic sense. Does it represent a Pope who abandons the Catholic cause, and the Church that enters a period of confusion and obscurity?

    The question is: Is the secret of Fatima related to such a situation? If it is, then instead of a policy of flight and conciliation, shouldn’t the Vatican adopt a strategy of a strong fight against the enemies of the Church who are within?

    You can see how the dream of St. John Bosco and the secret of Fatima may be harmoniously linked.

    I end these comments on the mystery of Fatima by suggesting that you pray to Our Lady to find a way to reveal her secret.
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    Offline Sede Catholic

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 11:22:24 AM »
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  • Yes,

    This is from http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j127sdFatimaMysteryt_5-13.htm

    A very noteworthy part of this is:

    Quote
    ...a news item reported that a thief entered the Vatican and stole, among other things, the sealed envelope that contained the secret of Fatima from the special room where it was kept. As far as I know, the report was never denied. So it can be that the secret is no longer with Sister Lucy but somewhere else, with this thief. If this is true, then Our Lady can find a way for this envelope to be found and opened.



    When I first read about this some time ago, I wondered whether this would be how the true Third Secret would be revealed.

    Perhaps Our Lady will cause it to happen.

    Francis is an Antipope. Pray that God will grant us a good Pope and save the Church.
    I abjure and retract my schismatic support of the evil CMRI.Thuc condemned the Thuc nonbishops
    "Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman Pontiff"-Pope Boniface VIII.
    If you think Francis is Pope,do you treat him like an Antipope?
    Pastor Aeternus, and the Council of Trent Sessions XXIII and XXIV


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 05:31:18 PM »
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  • Our Lady of Fatima, Pray for us.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 11:56:58 AM »
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  • I attended 2 Sunday Masses yesterday, and while the traditional priests gave good sermons, curiously, neither one mentioned Our Lady of Fatima or anything about the fact that May 13th is her feast day.

    One priest did say that his birthday is May 13th...

    One of our parishoners spent the day in the hospital, as her 18 month-old son died, on Mothers' Day.

    It was a surreal day for me. Thanks for the photo, RC53 -- I wonder how many visitors kneel at that shrine these days? Does the shrine still exist?
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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 07:21:35 PM »
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  • Melrose Park, Illinois was the orginal site of the Sacred Heart Seminary that
    opened in 1931.  The year that the Seminary closed is uncertain, and sure
    it was after 1965.  

    They had outdoor Masses. The below example is from 1955.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 07:30:52 PM »
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  • The procession of the Statue of our Lady of Perpetual Help was an annual
    event in Melrose Park, Illinois.
    Melrose Park was settled by Italian Immigrants in the 19th and 20th
    Century.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 10:43:27 PM »
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  • Quote
    They had outdoor Masses. The below example is from 1955.


    Attached file: Fr. Albert Corracin saying noon Mass at the Calvary Shrine on the Hill in Chicago's Melrose Park, 8.14.1955..jpg (12 downloads)


    Thanks again. . Make that a Solemn High Mass outdoors at noon. I think this is the first time I've seen such a thing. All the Solemn High Masses I've been at or seen pictures of were indoors. I think...

    And the statue of Our Mother of Perpetual Help: I know the image, and I've been to the mission Basilica in Boston Mass. But I've never seen a statue of her. Another first! That make 3 firsts on one web page!! Amazing!

    Correction: I know of a parish named "Our Lady of Perpetual Help" (why not "mother" nobody can say) where there is no icon inside, anywhere. All they have is an abstract statue in one color (ivory as I recall), that only seems remotely similar to the image. The statue you show in the photo is really beautiful, and I've never seen one like that.

    Those were the days, when our parish priests were not reluctant to have a public procession with the Church's treasures.

    I was in Arcadia CA a few years ago, when Fr. Ward, SSPX, led a Eucharist Procession down the public street near the Church. We went around the block, taking the right half of the street, so traffic could still get by on the other side. As I recall, he had explained that the city would not close the street for this, but granted a "permit" to use half of the street. So, while we were walking and praying the Rosary, and singing hymns, a car with 2 boys and one girl drove by, racing, with the windows down, shouting obscenities and making lewd gestures. Someone in the group told me that they have been known to throw things at the procession.

    Reading the article above, again, it occurred to me that certainly Pope Benedict has read the 3rd Secret, but I wonder if +Fellay has read it??

    I would venture to guess that +Williamson has not. But if +Fellay has read it, the implications are grim, indeed. For it would seem that reading the Secret would prevent him from pushing for a "deal" with Modernists.
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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 12:03:35 AM »
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  • I remember back in the 1950's and early 1960's when I lived in Lake
    Arrowhead in the San Bernardino Mountains, California.
    During the Summertime at Our Lady of the Lake would always have
    an outdoor Sunday Mass in which I served.
    When I was last there is 1980.  They have built a new church that serves
    the novus ordo. However, the stone altar for the outdoor masses was
    still there, but not used.
    When I lived in Long Beach, I attended Mary Star by the Sea located
    on the upper reservation of Fort Macarthur in San Pedro that was
    served by the late Fr. Donahue who came from the Arcadia Chapel.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 01:04:31 AM »
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  • Wow. Small world.

    I visited Lake Arrowhead several times in those days. I stayed with some friends in 3 different cabins. That was 1965 up to 69, thereabouts.

    I always heard them say "Mary Star" for the TLM site, because Mary Star of the Sea is the San Pedro diocesan parish, on west 8th Street. Mostly Italians and Yugoslavians. Everyone else is a "foreigner." (Inside scoop there.) They say "PEE-dro" not "PAY-dro," just so as not to be confused with the Hispanic "foreigners."

    I had more familiarity with Big Bear  and the local church there, St. Joseph Parish. But they were full swing into the New Mass with all their remodeling before I ever knew what hit me.

    I've noticed something about outdoor altars. The ones you show in your photos, for example, if you were to remove the linens, you would find a niche recessed in the surface, right in the center, for the altar stone to be placed. Go to any cemetery where there is an old Catholic altar set up in a grotto, and you'll find that cut-out in the top of the altar. But if it's a newer altar, there is no cut-out. They do not provide any place for the altar stone on altars that face the people, almost universally.

    In fact, go to your local Novus Ordo church and look for an altar stone in the "table," and about 29 times out of 30, there is no altar stone to be found. Ask the priest, and he'll come up with some kind of excuse. One local parish here took the old stone they had, and set it into concrete, IN THE FLOOR, out in the "lobby" (like it's a hotel or something), outside the church (where there is no salvation). There, part of the floor, passers-by step on it, and nobody is aware of its presence. The pastor there assured me the reason was to bring it out into contact with the people, where everyone can appreciate it first hand. Well, nobody appreciates it any more. They step on it, and keep walking.

    I wonder if that's in the Third Secret?

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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 06:25:17 AM »
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  • The correct name is:

    Name: Mission Maria Stella Maris
    Street: 3600 S Gaffey St
    San Pedro, ca 90731-6932
    Phone: (310) 548-4706

    Translated to Mary Star by the Sea.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 07:04:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Wow. Small world.


    In fact, go to your local Novus Ordo church and look for an altar stone in the "table," and about 29 times out of 30, there is no altar stone to be found. Ask the priest, and he'll come up with some kind of excuse.

    I wonder if that's in the Third Secret?



    This point should not be overlooked.
      I know one place where the priest jimmied an altar stone into the back of the modern altar.
      See also Michael Rose's book Ugly as Sin.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 10:41:43 AM »
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  • Up until Vatican II many things were universally (but with heretical exception, of course) believed to be untouchable. E.g., The Canon of the Mass, the Rosary, Sacred Tradition, Deposit of Faith, Apostolic sucession, dogmas of the Church, and the principle of the altar stone...

    All throughout World War II, even (as before then) priests who would go out into the field of battle to say Mass for the soldiers, such as on the hood of a Jeep, or in a foxhole, or behind a pile of rocks for protection from stray enemy bullets, would always have their altar stone carefully wrapped up and protected from harm, because no corruption is allowed on the stone. If it gets broken, it cannot be used. If it gets chipped or cracked, it cannot be used. So, in a rugged environment like a battlefield, keeping the altar stone safe from harm was essential.

    Why all the fuss? Because in order to say a licit Mass, a priest is (was!) always required to first have an altar stone on which the gifts would be placed for the Offertory and Consecration. I can't say "valid," because in the case of deprivation, such as in a POW camp where the priest's belongings have been stripped from him, he can still say a valid Mass, so long as he has something like a fragment of bread and a fragment of wine, and he can remember the essentials of the Mass without having to read from his missal. St. Maximilian Kolbe was believed to have done this in confinement, for the soldiers with him there before he was so terribly killed.

    Whether saying Mass on the road, or in a rented hall, or in someone's home, the first thing the priest would set up is the altar stone in the altar. There are numerous ways to do this, and the priests have been trained from antiquity how to do it, but modern new order priests sometimes are entirely ignorant of the topic, and they might not even know what an altar stone is, or have never seen one.

    How many ways can the Faith of Catholics be under attack? Does anyone have a list?
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 10:52:02 AM »
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  • Quote
    One local parish here took the old stone they had, and set it into concrete, IN THE FLOOR, out in the "lobby" (like it's a hotel or something), outside the church (where there is no salvation). There, part of the floor, passers-by step on it, and nobody is aware of its presence. The pastor there assured me the reason was to bring it out into contact with the people, where everyone can appreciate it first hand. Well, nobody appreciates it any more. They step on it, and keep walking.


    In retrospect, it seems to me that the pastor who did this nefarious crime was likely a Freemason. One of the ceremonies they require for a candidate to advance from one level to the next, is for him to walk through a room in which a crucifix is lying on the floor, and he must STEP on the crucifix as he walks over it. If the candidate somehow doesn't actually step on the crucifix, he fails the test, and will never advance to any higher level for the rest of his natural days.

    But don't think that the leaders will behave any differently. His masters in the room, who are watching his steps, will congratulate him just the same, as if he had done well. No matter if he passes or fails, they will shake his hand vigorously, and praise him for doing well. So he would not know if he did well or not. The power is entirely in the hands of the masters, even the power of knowledge and judgment.
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    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Our Lady of Fatima May 13th
    « Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 08:21:09 PM »
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  • I think the message of Our Lady of the Rosary at Fatima may illustrate luminously the problems that the faithful are seeing nowadays, especially this question:

    What has become of the Church of the Christ?

    It is as Our Lady foretold in the third part of the Secret confided to the three holy shepherd children, which was essentially the ultimate accomplishment of the ancient oracle that Ezechiel had given ages ago,:

    "Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood planted by the water: her fruit and her branches have grown out of many waters. And she hath strong rods to make sceptres for them that bear rule, and her stature was exalted among the branches: and she saw her height in the multitude of her branches. But she was plucked up in wrath, and cast on the ground, and the burning wind dried up her fruit: her strong rods are withered, and dried up: the fire hath devoured her. And now she is transplanted into the desert, in a land not passable, and dry. And a fire is gone out from a rod of her branches, which hath devoured her fruit: so that she now hath no strong rod, to be a sceptre of rulers. This is a lamentation, and it shall be for a lamentation" (ch. xix., 10-14).

    But, as Our Lady had foretold in the now lost part of the Secret, but can be learned from another oracle Ezechiel had announced (for Sr. Lucy was but another Ezechiel, another Elias, becoming the daughter of St. Elias at her profession as a Carmelite Nun):

    "Thus saith the Lord God: I myself will take of the marrow of the high cedar, and will set it: I will crop off a tender twig from the top of the branches thereof, and I will plant it on a mountain high and eminent. On the high mountains of Israel will I plant it, and it shall shoot forth into branches, and shall bear fruit, and it shall become a great cedar: and all birds shall dwell under it, and every fowl shall make its nest under the shadow of the branches thereof. And all the trees of the country shall know that I the Lord have brought down the high tree, and exalted the low tree: and have dried up the green tree, and have caused the dry tree to flourish. I the Lord have spoken and have done it" (ch. xvii., 22-24).

    Not by artifice or politics, nor by the efforts of finite creatures who think themselves greater than they are, but by the humble ones, who have kept themselves pure in the sight of God and of His Most Holy Mother, shall the Church and civilization be restored to their proper dignity and glory. It shall be those who are devoted to Our Lady completely, and have cultivated the spiritual life as befits the slaves of this celestial Queen and Victress, particularly amongst the clergy, that the Church shall be shown to the world as the only answer to the perils that are menacing it.

    Just as it was the humble shepherds who at the first Christmas confessed and adored the Word Incarnate before all the other Jєωιѕн people and before the royal Sages of the East; just as it was a penitent criminal was the last to have confessed and adored the Son of the Eternal Father as He was dying upon the Cross: so it shall be the humble ones, the little ones, who shall repair the immense damage done by the diabolical arrogance of the modernists.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.