Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Orthodoxy Destroyed  (Read 1429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 46873
  • Reputation: +27740/-5151
  • Gender: Male
Orthodoxy Destroyed
« on: January 20, 2024, 08:40:53 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Great video from MHFM showing how the Second Council of Nicea (which the Orthodox claim to accept) destroys Orthodoxy.

    Nicea taught the procession of the Holy Spirit through the Son, and also reaffirmed papal primacy.


    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5015
    • Reputation: +1949/-244
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #1 on: January 20, 2024, 10:49:36 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Orthodoxy has always come across to me as a bit shady (quite aside from their having separated themselves from the unity of the Church) --- it's very hard to get a straight answer from them about matters, it's "this Father of the Church said this", "but this Father of the Church said that", and if you remind them that something is theologically unsound, they just resort to mysticism and all sorts of gobbledygook.  They don't draw a strong distinction between Divine Law and canonical discipline, and they use ekonomia to justify deviations even from what would seem to be Divine Law --- second marriages, and now, even contraception.  The best I have ever been able to determine, it goes something like "sometimes sin can be tolerated to avoid a greater sin or evil", almost like the priest or bishop is being used as a kind of "sin-eater", or as though the Church, as they see it, can dispense from Divine Law as needed.  Totally bogus.

    And as to sacramental validity, they will come back and say "we don't view 'validity' as a black-and-white thing, we know more where the Grace of God is, rather than where it is not".  Or something like that.

    SMH.


    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7692
    • Reputation: +3922/-89
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #2 on: January 20, 2024, 12:33:47 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Orthodoxy has always come across to me as a bit shady (quite aside from their having separated themselves from the unity of the Church) --- it's very hard to get a straight answer from them about matters, it's "this Father of the Church said this", "but this Father of the Church said that", and if you remind them that something is theologically unsound, they just resort to mysticism and all sorts of gobbledygook.  They don't draw a strong distinction between Divine Law and canonical discipline, and they use ekonomia to justify deviations even from what would seem to be Divine Law --- second marriages, and now, even contraception.  The best I have ever been able to determine, it goes something like "sometimes sin can be tolerated to avoid a greater sin or evil", almost like the priest or bishop is being used as a kind of "sin-eater", or as though the Church, as they see it, can dispense from Divine Law as needed.  Totally bogus.

    And as to sacramental validity, they will come back and say "we don't view 'validity' as a black-and-white thing, we know more where the Grace of God is, rather than where it is not".  Or something like that.

    SMH.
    You can practically get away with murder in Orthodoxy, as long who ever getting murdered is really really evil. 

    Imagine a re-write of the Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not commit adultery but if you do just invoke ekonomia. 
    These schismatics obviously need to get bigger tablets (cf Jaws reference)

    There are indeed very beautiful chants in Church Slavonic sung by Orthodox monks. These appeal to my Slavic heritage to a degree BUT whatever is sung must be in accord with the One Holy Catholic Faith. Basically anything sung by Traditional Byzantine Catholics falls within that category, ie the Catholic Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostom (and we can add St. Basil and St. James to that) :incense:

    Alas with Orthodoxy...beautiful chants, iconography and architecture but theologically off the rails. :fryingpan:
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline Soubirous

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2109
    • Reputation: +1662/-44
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #3 on: January 20, 2024, 12:39:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Alas with Orthodoxy...beautiful chants, iconography and architecture but theologically off the rails. :fryingpan:

    What it does accomplish at least is to sift the ortho-bros in transit from Protestantism. ::) :incense:
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7692
    • Reputation: +3922/-89
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #4 on: January 20, 2024, 02:40:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What it does accomplish at least is to sift the ortho-bros in transit from Protestantism. ::) :incense:
    If Protties can make their way to the One Truth Faith via Orthodoxy, then God obviously has some use for Orthos. :pray:
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster


    Offline WearyUnderTheSun

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 22
    • Reputation: +5/-3
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #5 on: January 21, 2024, 08:34:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You can practically get away with murder in Orthodoxy, as long who ever getting murdered is really really evil.
    To be fair, doesn't Catholicism have this too with the doctrine of tyrannicide? 

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1062
    • Reputation: +808/-157
    • Gender: Male
    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #6 on: January 21, 2024, 09:04:31 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • The conversation here seems to assume that Orthodoxy is a centralised, monolithic entity after the fashion of our own western Catholic Church. Rather, Orthodoxy is a confederation of local Churches confessing the same creed (but not necessarily sharing the same understanding of doctrines and morals) and possessing apostolic sucession (in their own view) which choose to extend ecclesial communion to one another. This last point is interesting since Orthodoxy has been split in two separate communions since 2017 over the ststus of Orthodoxy in the Ukraine, 2/3 of the national Churches following Moscow in its schism from Constantinople and the other 1/3 remaining with the Phanar.

    Additionally, there are the "True Orthodox" Churches that are not in communion with Constantinople or Moscow. These noncanonical Orthodox Churches are Old Calendarists, anti-ecuмenical, demographically small, and very cranky.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7692
    • Reputation: +3922/-89
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #7 on: January 21, 2024, 09:21:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • To be fair, doesn't Catholicism have this too with the doctrine of tyrannicide?
    Twas an exaggerated example of the fluidity of Orthodox doctrine. :smirk:
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster


    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7692
    • Reputation: +3922/-89
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #8 on: January 21, 2024, 09:24:49 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • The conversation here seems to assume that Orthodoxy is a centralised, monolithic entity after the fashion of our own western Catholic Church. Rather, Orthodoxy is a confederation of local Churches confessing the same creed (but not necessarily sharing the same understanding of doctrines and morals) and possessing apostolic sucession (in their own view) which choose to extend ecclesial communion to one another. This last point is interesting since Orthodoxy has been split in two separate communions since 2017 over the ststus of Orthodoxy in the Ukraine, 2/3 of the national Churches following Moscow in its schism from Constantinople and the other 1/3 remaining with the Phanar.

    Additionally, there are the "True Orthodox" Churches that are not in communion with Constantinople or Moscow. These noncanonical Orthodox Churches are Old Calendarists, anti-ecuмenical, demographically small, and very cranky.
    This is a major point that I bring up in discussions of Orthodoxy vs Catholicism.

    What flavour of Orthodoxy does one adhere towards?
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5015
    • Reputation: +1949/-244
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #9 on: January 21, 2024, 10:14:00 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Additionally, there are the "True Orthodox" Churches that are not in communion with Constantinople or Moscow. These noncanonical Orthodox Churches are Old Calendarists, anti-ecuмenical, demographically small, and very cranky.

    Never heard of anything like that before :jester:

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 817
    • Reputation: +352/-142
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Orthodoxy Destroyed
    « Reply #10 on: January 21, 2024, 10:43:33 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • ... anti-ecuмenical, demographically small, and very cranky.

     You mean they're just like trad Catholics then? :laugh1: