CathInfo.com

SJB,

You don't take into account anything concerning the revolution of Vatican II?

This period of the Church is a significant time of trial not so much in the way that Christians are being harassed but that Church leaders have so clearly disregarded their duties as ministers.  

From reading "They Have Uncrowned Him" some of the pre-sessions of Vatican II had liberal (think Atheist) Cardinals openly walking out - ABL describes this.  Well, isn't a break in protocol and such a usurpation for personal gain (because these cardinals knew they couldn't make the changes that their hearts desired if they had to follow these rules)...  It's all that book ABL wrote in 1987 (I'm rereading it for the second time)  

Well, when you change the course for personal gain (and there really is no other way to describe it), isn't this enough of a break in form?  If sacraments have their four marks, shouldn't en ecuмenical council which has the potency to do major damage to the Universal Church on a worldwide scale enough for it to be declared null and void?  (I know a future pope may do this but souls are being lost on such a massive scale.)

SJB, Vatican II was a revolution in the church and it was an act of deception from start to finish - that's the conclusion I'm coming to and I've only been studying the issue for a short while.  Falsehoods abound and the Act of Faith prayer says that "God can neither deceive nor be deceived" so why are we always on the lookout from lies from His Church?  Well, maybe the CMRI priest who told me the conciliar church is a counterfeit church is right on.

Where does that leave "juridiction"?  

SBJ,

I just reread the subject line of this thread and it's "Ordinary Jurisdiction".

Now, having seen that, is there still "ordinary jurisdiction" where the argument can be made that the Vatican is under enemy occupation?  

“For it has been clearly and expressly laid down in the canons that it pertains to the one Apostolic See to judge whether a person is fit for the dignity and burden of the episcopacy, and that complete freedom in the nomination of bishops is the right of the Roman Pontiff. But if, as happens at times, some other persons or groups are permitted to participate in the selection of an episcopal candidate, this is lawful only if the Apostolic See has allowed it in express terms and in each particular case for clearly defined persons or groups, the conditions and circuмstances being very plainly determined. Granted this exception, it follows that bishops who have been neither named nor confirmed by the Apostolic See, but who, on the contrary, have been elected and consecrated in defiance of its express orders, enjoy no powers of teaching or of jurisdiction since jurisdiction passes to bishops only through the Roman Pontiff as We admonished in the Encyclical Letter Mystici Corporis…” (Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum principis, 29 June 1958)

“…the power of jurisdiction, which is conferred upon the Supreme Pontiff directly by divine rights, flows to the Bishops by the same right, but only through the Successor of St. Peter...” Pius XII, Ad Sinarum gentem, 7 October 1954)

“ …this power of giving jurisdiction as a consequence of a new practice established now for several centuries and confirmed by general councils and even by concordats, has returned to its point of origin and does not belong in any way to metropolitans, but resides solely in the Apostolic See. So today the Pope as a duty of his office appoints bishops for each of the churches, and no lawful consecration may take place in the entire Catholic Church without the order of the Apostolic See.” (Trent, session 24, chap. 1, de Reformat.) (Pope Pius VI, apostolic letter Caritas, 13th April 1791)

“Only the pope established bishops. This right belongs to him sovereignly, exclusively and necessarily , by the very constitution of the Church and the nature of the hierarchy.” (Dom Adrien Gréa, L’Église et sa Divine Constitution.)

…this power of giving jurisdiction as a consequence of a new practice established now for several centuries and confirmed by general councils and even by concordats, has returned to its point of origin and does not belong in any way to metropolitans, but resides solely in the Apostolic See.