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Author Topic: Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops  (Read 3706 times)

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Offline umblehay anmay

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Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
« on: January 21, 2011, 02:20:51 PM »
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  • "An Open Letter to Bishop Clarence Kelly on the Thuc Bishops and the Errors in The Sacred and the Profane" by Mario Derksen has been posted at http://www.thucbishops.com/ .

    The docuмent, which is a thorough study of Catholic principles, is 101 pages in length. A summary of the major points can be found on pages 62-66 of the docuмent and is also available for download as a separate file.

    It is hoped that Bp. Kelly and his SSPV/CSPV clergy will seriously examine this powerful refutation of their position and either retract their errors or at least address the different arguments made against them in a sincere and honest manner.

    This docuмent has been published for the greater glory of God and to advance the cause of the salvation of souls. It is NOT written in a spirit of vengeance or anger, and is not meant to divide but to unite all sedevacantist Roman Catholics.

    In 1937, Pope Pius XI wrote:

    "To all Our children . . . We make another and more urgent appeal for union. Many times Our paternal heart has been saddened by the divergencies—often idle in their causes, always tragic in their consequences—which array in opposing camps the sons of the same Mother Church. Thus it is that the radicals, who are not so very numerous, profiting by this discord are able to make it more acute, and end by pitting Catholics one against the other. . . . Those who make a practice of spreading dissension among Catholics assume a terrible responsibility before God and the Church." (Encyclical "Divini Redemptoris," par. 71)

    I hope that my contribution will help to overcome all unnecessary obstacles. Let us finally stop the silly divisions and work for the conversion and salvation of sinners!

    Feedback, if sincere and thoughtful, is welcome.


    Mario Derksen
    sedevacante @ thucbishops.com


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 02:59:45 PM »
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  • I have only read the summary, but it looks like a very scrupulously and charitably crafted letter.

    Is there any hope for a public response to this Letter?


    Offline Lighthouse

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 03:36:48 PM »
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  • Because I can find only two open quotes and no closed quotes I am completely baffled over what is part of the letter, and what is commentary by the OP.

    Or does M. Derksen=Umblehay?

    Offline Lighthouse

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 03:39:08 PM »
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  • I beg your pardon, I was able to find some quote closings, but I am still a little confused about who is saying what.

    Offline umblehay anmay

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 03:56:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lighthouse
    Because I can find only two open quotes and no closed quotes I am completely baffled over what is part of the letter, and what is commentary by the OP.

    Or does M. Derksen=Umblehay?


    Sorry about that, I didn't explain; the original post above is the text of the email that Mario sent me and I think I accidentally copied the subject line with the title of the letter in quotes.

    Also, Mario wants it well known that if anyone detects any thing they believe is in error to please contact him so he can make corrections if needed.   He said he is going to add a section to that website where he will post any rebuttals he recieves and his reply.  


    Offline Lighthouse

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 04:10:15 PM »
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  • Thank you.

    Offline Bazz

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 04:43:08 PM »
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  • From what I can tell so far, it looks really good. Bp. Kelly surely needs it. However, I hope Mario has first gone the private route before doing the open letter...it is less embarrassing, and really is priority before going public. But, if he has attempted a private communication, and Bp. Kelly has refused to address it, I think it is well in order to have the Open Letter.

    I do not plan on finishing reading it. It does look good, and it seems very thorough, maybe even too thorough. But nice to have on record. Thank you, Mario! I personally find the issue simpler, when you have the unemotional Catholic principles to stand on.

    Personally, I think that Bp. Kelly is caught up in "scruples", obsessed with hypothetical possibilities. Scruples in the spiritual life are deadly, and are likened to phobias or manias. They ride on emotion and cannot let them go. Sort of a slave to hypothetical possibility. I pray it will help Bp. Kelly, but I fear the detail of the Open Letter will increase his emotional fears and ultimately not help him.

    Offline Peregrine

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 06:39:58 PM »
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  • A few weeks ago I happened totally by chance to come across Bp. Kelly's "The Sacred and the Profane" which can be downloaded as a PDF from http://www.congregationofstpiusv.com/BishopKelly.html.  After reading all 329 pages, I felt quite sick that any intelligent priest could expound such flimsy arguments and downright faulty logic.  Up until then I had considered the SSPV to be generally acceptable, even despite a number of harsh criticisms on this forum.  

    Shortly after reading Bp. Kelly's treatise, which in no way "proves" the Thuc line to be invalid, I inquired about an SSPV mission two hours from my house, only to have it confirmed that anyone receiving the sacraments from a Thuc line priest is forbidden to receive the sacraments (Holy Communion and Confession) at any SSPV chapel.  I find this both shocking and scandalous, and wonder why none of the SSPV's many websites states this plainly.

    A few days ago I came across and have now read all 101 pages of Mario Derksen's "Open Letter to Bp. Clarence Kelly," which is an absolutely masterful refutation of every single argument made by Bp. Kelly.  I have never met Mr. Derksen but am relieved to know that we still have some Catholics like him with such a high level of scholarship, combined with zeal for the Church.

    I pray that Bp. Kelly and every priest and lay person associated with the SSPV/CSPV will seriously study the "Open Letter" and have the humility and courage to reject the erroneous position of Bp. Kelly.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #8 on: January 22, 2011, 09:00:52 AM »
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  •  About Summary Point (11)


     The exact paragraph which was taken out of context needs to be clarified.  I suggest different type face, size or color to prove exactly the difference between what Frs. Barbara and Jenkins wrote.  The format should be side by side so there is visual clarity.

    The difference between what was written and what someone changed to suit his agenda must be demonstrated without any ambiguity.

    The accusations and intimations about Archbishop Thuc are too grave to leave to chance.

    In the Open Letter (long version) I hope that the discussion of Thuc's cats in Paris is thrown into the sewer where it belongs.  It said more about how catty the observer was, than the mental health of the Archbishop.  





    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 12:24:52 PM »
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  • It would be nice to believe this will help those in error see, but it is highly unlikely.  

    Between this study and The Answers, there is sufficient scholarly material to choke a pig.  The reason I do not believe it will change Bp Kelly et alii is this: They are men of bad will.

    How can we know this? Well, they have refused ALL such information before...AND, what is MORE important...

    Even IF they were right about the Thuc issue, their truly NUT-JOB policies toward the laity would NOT follow or be justifiable.  This, more than anything -- especially in a time when such issues cannot be settled authoritatively -- shows they are men of bad will.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 10:13:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Bazz
    I hope Mario has first gone the private route before doing the open letter...it is less embarrassing, and really is priority before going public.


    This is a very public issue and has been for many years.  Bp. Kelly's book is part of the public record, as is the SSPV's ridiculous policy toward Catholics with whom they disagree, none of whom CAN be proved (de facto OR de jure) to be public sinners, non-Catholics, etc.

    At this stage of the seemingly-endless nonsense, it is NOT necessary to "go the private route" in order to spare Bp. Kelly, whose antics have been far from sensible, have affected MANY decent and innocent people, and DESERVE to be censured strongly and PUBLICLY.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 11:31:37 AM »
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  • Yes, this has been a public issue for quite a long time.  I have a copy of Jenkins-Cekada Debate regarding the Thuc Consecrations and the clergy at St. Gertrude the Great in Sharnville, OH September, 2002, on video cassette.  

    Bp. Kelly seems to have been in retreat for many years, staying close to home in New York with his Congregation, which is separate from the Society.

    Many have attempted to speak with Bp. Kelly; it is safe to say that he and Bp. Santay are cautious about taking phone calls or visitors.

    The SSPV and CSSPV most certainly deserve to have their abuse of authority questioned publicly.

     Who gave them the authority to decide who is Catholic and who is not?  Who?  And why do their followers support this anti Catholic nonsense year after year?  






    Offline Roman Catholic

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #12 on: January 24, 2011, 07:34:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth


    ...why do their followers support this anti Catholic nonsense year after year?  




    Generally speaking, for the most part it appears that their duped followers genuinely desire to be Catholic, but they have drunk the K A and they believe that they in SSPV are some of the few chosen ones. They really think that all Thuc-ites are outside the fold.

    Most sheep are not very discerning; they rely on their shepherds to feed them. They follow their shepherds blindly (at least partly so) and they follow in a rather trusting manner.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 09:12:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Most sheep are not very discerning; they rely on their shepherds to feed them. They follow their shepherds blindly (at least partly so) and they follow in a rather trusting manner.


    Indeed.  IOW, many are, to varying degrees, mindless and spineless.  The same holds at sgg.org/cult -- especially for the poor, blind sheep who have remained to be fleeced, materially and spiritually, down to the very bone.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Open Letter to Bp. Kelly on the Thuc Bishops
    « Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 11:10:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic


    ... for the most part it appears that their duped followers genuinely desire to be Catholic, but they have drunk the K A and they believe that they in SSPV are some of the few chosen ones. They really think that all Thuc-ites are outside the fold.


    This is a crucial point, the psychological allure of being one of the few chosen Catholics of the End Times.  

    The recipe for Kool Aid needs to be studied closely.

    It would be good to examine the recipe for the Kool Aid.