Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Your Friend Colin on April 15, 2019, 01:42:12 PM
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Does anyone know much about the Palmarian "Catholic" Church?
I was researching Archbishop Thuc's lineage and found these guys.
Scrolling through their website kind of creeped me out. They are wayyy out there. It's sad.
https://www.palmarianchurch.org/ (https://www.palmarianchurch.org/)
https://www.instagram.com/carmelitas_de_la_santa_faz/ (https://www.instagram.com/carmelitas_de_la_santa_faz/)
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Scrolling through their website kind of creeped me out.
That's a good sign.
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"Unlike most traditionalist groups with roots in the Roman Catholic Church, the Palmarian Catholic Church (https://magnuslundberg.net/2017/05/25/new-book-on-the-palmarian-church/) does not use the Tridentine Mass Order, but a very brief version which is thought to include ”the essential parts” of that rite.
Nevertheless, in his first papal decrees in 1978, Palmarian Pope Gregory XVII (1946-2005) declared that the only rite that should be used in the Palmarian Catholic Church was the so-called Tridentine Mass, promulgated in 1570 by Pius V. Shortly thereafter, however, he made changes in the rite and introduced several new elements, and, by 1980, he referred to the rite as Latin-Tridentine-Palmarian.
A much greater change came on October 9, 1983, when Gregory XVIII promulgated a new, much briefer Mass Order, which is concentrated to offertory, consecration and sacrificial communion. Making it very brief, about five minutes long, each cleric could and should read several masses a day; in fact, they say turns of Masses, not individual ones."
"According to Palmarian doctrine, the body, soul and blood of Christ and Mary are present in the consecrated bread and wine."
5 Minute "Mass"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7wMovxiEo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7wMovxiEo)
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That's pretty wacky!
His Holiness Pope Peter III! What happened to Peter II?
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The Lord in His Providence will always make sure to make Anti-Popes clear to the faithful by letting them teach obvious heresy. If these Palmarians and other false claimants taught only true Catholic doctrine, many more souls would mistakenly follow them.
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Reading through their site reminds me of another group of heretic schismatics I encountered, who blasphemously claimed that Our Lady was the first person of the Trinity and that the God of the Old Testament was a different false god. I stumbled onto it just by browsing Fatima sites actually, someone must've accidentally linked to the heretic's site because it had pages on the Fatima Apparitions, without noticing what the rest of the site was about.
There really are a lot of crazy blatantly heretical groups around these days.
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The Lord in His Providence will always make sure to make Anti-Popes clear to the faithful by letting them teach obvious heresy. If these Palmarians and other false claimants taught only true Catholic doctrine, many more souls would mistakenly follow them.
Randomly wondering what heresies Pope Michael holds to. I mean, his claim is obviously ridiculous. But what heresy is he guilty of?
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Reading through their site reminds me of another group of heretic schismatics I encountered, who blasphemously claimed that Our Lady was the first person of the Trinity and that the God of the Old Testament was a different false god. I stumbled onto it just by browsing Fatima sites actually, someone must've accidentally linked to the heretic's site because it had pages on the Fatima Apparitions, without noticing what the rest of the site was about.
There really are a lot of crazy blatantly heretical groups around these days.
was that website called "our lady is god" or something?
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Finally! A crazier cult than OLMC! Let's buy Pablo a one way ticket to Spain! He can exorcize their demons, and maybe even become pope!
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was that website called "our lady is god" or something?
Yeah. I honestly wondered was it a parody site because it was a very 90s style site with overdramatic and almost satirically zealous writing, with no explanation given whatsoever as to why their "traditional Catholic beliefs" can't be found anywhere except their site.
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Randomly wondering what heresies Pope Michael holds to. I mean, his claim is obviously ridiculous. But what heresy is he guilty of?
I don't even know how I'd find out his beliefs, does he even have a website? All I could find was a pathetic Twitter account where he just remarks on his day and posts pictures(and even opinions on traffic etiquette). But for now we can go with the fact he was elected by laypeople. Sure, one could argue that valid Cardinals are hard to come by, but for his own ordination and consecration to have been valid, he must recognise all those ordinated and consecrated in the same way, of which there are many. And yet he couldn't get ANY other traditional Priests to attend his election, much less vote for him. So from that alone we can conclude he is a false Pope.
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Yeah. I honestly wondered was it a parody site because it was a very 90s style site with overdramatic and almost satirically zealous writing, with no explanation given whatsoever as to why their "traditional Catholic beliefs" can't be found anywhere except their site.
I stumbled on that about a year ago. They had graphics about how the Rosary is evil, depicting it as a pentagram. Ridiculous.
http://ourladysresistance.org/141-years.html (http://ourladysresistance.org/141-years.html)
Another website I stumbled across. They believe we haven't had a Pope since Pius IX!
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Finally! A crazier cult than OLMC! Let's buy Pablo a one way ticket to Spain! He can exorcize their demons, and maybe even become pope!
I'm relatively unfamiliar with the situation at OLMC. I get the gist of what's going on, but I don't know who Pablo is. Can you give me brief summary?
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Yep, the Palmarian group has some preternatural activity tied to them.
There are witnessed examples of Gregory XVII actually levitating while saying Mass. Some weird stuff.
Bishop Thuc is often maligned for consecrating these clowns, and he should be to some extent, but he did the consecrations before Clemente Dominguez came out as "Pope", due to some apparitions they were having and in which true preternatural phenomena were taking place. He renounced them as soon as he declared himself Pope. Thuc was actually encouraged to ordain/consecrate them at the insistence of a priest who was at the time a professor at Econe. Reportedly this priest initially asked +Lefebvre to do it, and the Archbishop allegedly told them to go visit Thuc. So Thuc didn't do it primarily on his own initiative. It's clear that the poor man was easily influenced, probably having been deeply traumatized by the murder of his family by the Communists ... but that's no evidence that he was insane. I've known a lot of people to do strange/imprudent things from time to time ... without having become insane.
In any case, the Palmarian group holds that the real Paul VI was drugged and held hostage, and they consider him a martyr. Right before Paul VI was allegedly killed, he is said to have bilocated to Clemente Dominguez and appointed him his successor.
Strange stuff indeed.
Dominguez was apparently some insurance salesman who went to the apparition site and then suddenly started having apparitions himself. Some people say he was a notorious public ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ before all that happened.
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interesting details here ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmarian_Catholic_Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmarian_Catholic_Church)
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Randomly wondering what heresies Pope Michael holds to. I mean, his claim is obviously ridiculous. But what heresy is he guilty of?
One error of 'Pope Michael' is the declaration that he is the Pope.
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One error of 'Pope Michael' is the declaration that he is the Pope.
That's called circular reasoning Poche.
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Wow...just out of curiosity I looked up the Palmarians on their website and their “cathedral”/“vatican” is absolutely beautiful. The vestments alone, in one of their “pontifical mass” videos must be worth tens of millions of dollars. Where in the world did such a group build and accuмulate such wealth - just being “a cult”? The building itself is absolutely amazing and, yes, beautiful.
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Since 1983 the Palmarian Church has drastically reformed its rites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rites) and its liturgy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_liturgy), which previously had been styled in the Tridentine form (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tridentine_Mass). The Palmarian liturgy was reduced to almost solely the Eucharistic words of consecration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consecration). The See of El Palmar de Troya has also declared the Real Presence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Presence) of the Virgin Mary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Mary) in the sacred host (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist) and the bodily assumption into heaven of St. Joseph (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_of_Nazareth) to be dogmas of the Catholic faith. By 2000, they had their own Palmarian version of the Bible, revised by Domínguez on claimed prophetic authority and a product of the Second Palmarian Council, also known as the Palmarian synod. For these reasons and their strict rules allowing no communication with people outside of the faith, other Catholics consider the Palmarian Church to be heretical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heretical) and cult (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult) followers.
It gets weirder
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Is Michael's claim to be Pope *heretical* though? I mean, I grant that its schismatic (at least materially, I won't judge his heart) but don't you have to actually deny a dogma to be heretical?
I've seen certain people in certain places call Sedevacantism heresy and that's confusing as well. Wouldn't the issue there be schism?
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Wow...just out of curiosity I looked up the Palmarians on their website and their “cathedral”/“vatican” is absolutely beautiful. The vestments alone, in one of their “pontifical mass” videos must be worth tens of millions of dollars. Where in the world did such a group build and accuмulate such wealth - just being “a cult”? The building itself is absolutely amazing and, yes, beautiful.
I was reading about it and one researcher said the cathedral is worth 100,000,000 Euros!
I think they had quite a large following in 70's/80's/90's. A cult like that can easily amass wealth by brainwashing their followers.
You can read more about them here: https://magnuslundberg.net/category/palmarian-catholic-church/page/1/ (https://magnuslundberg.net/category/palmarian-catholic-church/page/1/)
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It gets weirder
It gets even weirder...
Ladislaus mentioned this a couple days ago:
"In the 1990s, Gregory XVII was accused of sɛҳuąƖ impropriety with several of his priests and nuns. In 1997 he admitted to it and begged forgiveness. He died on 22 March 2005. His sect immediately canonized him, giving him the title “Pope Saint Gregory XVII, the Very Great.”
The Palmarian Creed is an entire 27 pages long!
"Therefore I believe most firmly that the Most Holy Virgin Mary is Co-priest of Christ the Eternal High Priest, and that this real and true Priesthood of Mary is inferior to the Supreme Priesthood of Jesus Christ, greatly superior to the Ministerial Priesthood and immensely superior to the Common Priesthood of the faithful."
From Magnus Lundberg: "There are great differences between Roman Catholic and Palmarian sacramental theology. One original aspect of that Palmarian theology, as explained in the Catechism, is that the Virgin “enthrones” a drop of her blood into the faithful at baptism or conversion. This drop can be strengthened, diminished or disappear altogether according to the moral status of the individual, and its presence contribute to her sanctification. The sacraments also “enthrone” and strengthen a piece of Christ’s heart in the faithful (PKO 22, 27, 37).
Baptism is the door to the church and the other sacraments. Children should preferably be baptized within eight days of their birth and not later than fifteen days. Through baptism, the child (or adult) receives Mary’s blood drop, which takes away original sin. The Palmarian baptism has an undeletable character, but the strength of the drop can be weakened. The sacrament of confirmation should ideally be administered very shortly after baptism. It strengthens the blood drop and makes the individual stronger in his or her fight against Satan. Only a bishop can confirm (PKO 38-39). If a person commits a cardinal sin, the blood drop of Mary disappears. Confession of mortal sins to a Palmarian priest is the way to re-enter into the state of grace, so that the drop is strengthened (PKO 40)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGUQqNgffUM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGUQqNgffUM)
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That's pretty wacky!
His Holiness Pope Peter III! What happened to Peter II?
Gregory XVII died
Peter II died
Gregory XVIII resigned to get married (hey, at least he was straight ... unlike Gregory XVII, who admitted ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activity while "reigning as pope")
and that brings us to Peter III
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Finally! A crazier cult than OLMC! Let's buy Pablo a one way ticket to Spain! He can exorcize their demons, and maybe even become pope!
You must love OLMC so much that you cant stop writing about them. A fire broke out at Notre Dame last week, and if I were to take a guess, you would go on that forum and say that Pablo should be sent to Notre Dame to douse the fire.