We accept the faith on the authority of God, and the Church he founded.  So, morally speaking, it is necessary to know the identity of those who comprise the hierarchy, and at this time we (or at least, myself and everyone I know!) is unaware of who and where they are.  God provides, of course-- it's no accident that this crisis comes at a time when certainly legitimate authorities (although dead) are available so easily.

St. Paul says that if he, or even an angel from Heaven teaches a foreign gospel, let him be anathema.  We reject the Novus Ordo program because it is contrary to what we have already received and believed on the authority of the Church.  And we also know that such an instance (being proposed a false faith by one who appears to be an authority) is possible based on this.  

Our Lord Jesus Christ promised the visible magisterium to exist forever, that visible magisterium supplies jurisdiction. Supplied jurisdiction comes from the authority which is wielded by the Roman Pontiff and held by the Church (Bishops) during interregnums, these Bishops must be visible, they cannot be invisible, that's heresy, so where are they?

Which Bishops are currently holding the authority to supply the jurisdiction?

What visible magisterium is doing the supplying? Protestants as well as sedevacantists both believe the visible magisterium does not exist. The concept of an invisible Church supplying jurisdiction is simply not Catholic.

The whole sede proposition is a logical fallacy.

The mystery of the Incarnation is the signature of God’s dealings with man. Everything in the True Faith comes to us in visible, tangible, flesh-and-blood terms. Authentic Christianity is incarnational.

Quote

We accept the faith on the authority of God, and the Church he founded.  So, morally speaking, it is necessary to know the identity of those who comprise the hierarchy, and at this time we (or at least, myself and everyone I know!) is unaware of who and where they are.  God provides, of course-- it's no accident that this crisis comes at a time when certainly legitimate authorities (although dead) are available so easily.

St. Paul says that if he, or even an angel from Heaven teaches a foreign gospel, let him be anathema.  We reject the Novus Ordo program because it is contrary to what we have already received and believed on the authority of the Church.  And we also know that such an instance (being proposed a false faith by one who appears to be an authority) is possible based on this.  

Our Lord Jesus Christ promised the visible magisterium to exist forever, that visible magisterium supplies jurisdiction. Supplied jurisdiction comes from the authority which is wielded by the Roman Pontiff and held by the Church (Bishops) during interregnums, these Bishops must be visible, they cannot be invisible, that's heresy, so where are they?

Which Bishops are currently holding the authority to supply the jurisdiction?

What visible magisterium is doing the supplying? Protestants as well as sedevacantists both believe the visible magisterium does not exist. The concept of an invisible Church supplying jurisdiction is simply not Catholic.

The whole sede proposition is a logical fallacy.

The mystery of the Incarnation is the signature of God’s dealings with man. Everything in the True Faith comes to us in visible, tangible, flesh-and-blood terms. Authentic Christianity is incarnational.

You hypocrite, ARE YOU IN UNION WITH YOUR LOCAL NOVUS ORDO "BISHOP"???

Cantarella you base your entire faith on what others say, instead of trusting God.

The definition of "visible" is: Something that can be seen or noticed, or someone or something that is well-known or in the public eye.

Everyone here at least sees, reads and believes the Catholic teachings as taught, well at least most Catholic here.  

We have the Deposit of Faith and writings of all the past popes.  THEY ARE seen and NOTICED, by those who are seeking Truth.  

St Augustine says, even if only a few people in the entire world have the Faith, there is the Church.  

If, however, you prefer to believe that the Church magisterium is compiled of heretics, that alone is a heresy, you are saying right there, that God failed.  

Just because heretics and MODERNISTS possess the buildings, are you saying they are the Church?

This era is the age of FAITH, we must Trust in God and have Faith that He is the Head, as He has always been, not the Modernists, just because they possess the property of the Church, the property is not more important than the teachings.  That is what SSPX is starting to believe.  

It is Protestantism to believe as SSPX, because they can't even agree on the fasting laws for the reception of Communion, some SSPX chapels say it is three hours, and some say it is one hours. Proof that there is NO POPE, to unite them.  

Cantarella you base your entire faith on what others say, instead of trusting God.

The definition of "visible" is: Something that can be seen or noticed, or someone or something that is well-known or in the public eye.

Everyone here at least sees, reads and believes the Catholic teachings as taught, well at least most Catholic here.  

We have the Deposit of Faith and writings of all the past popes.  THEY ARE seen and NOTICED, by those who are seeking Truth.  

St Augustine says, even if only a few people in the entire world have the Faith, there is the Church.  

If, however, you prefer to believe that the Church magisterium is compiled of heretics, that alone is a heresy, you are saying right there, that God failed.  

Just because heretics and MODERNISTS possess the buildings, are you saying they are the Church?

This era is the age of FAITH, we must Trust in God and have Faith that He is the Head, as He has always been, not the Modernists, just because they possess the property of the Church, the property is not more important than the teachings.  That is what SSPX is starting to believe.  

It is Protestantism to believe as SSPX, because they can't even agree on the fasting laws for the reception of Communion, some SSPX chapels say it is three hours, and some say it is one hours. Proof that there is NO POPE, to unite them.  

Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ. - St Athanasius

Quote from: 2Vermont

It is my understanding that Cantarella is a Novus Ordo Feeneyite.

Go figure.

What?! :shocked:

All this time I thought she was at least a traditionalist.

 

I'm gathering this from other posts she has made here and elsewhere.  I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Others have questioned the obvious contradiction in this as well.

What is Cantarella doing in this forum then? Shouldn't she be with her novus ordo "brethren" over at Hindu Answers?

Did you go to the recent Wicked Youth Day in Brazil to be with "Your Holiness" Sinagoglio and gain a "plenary indulgence"?

Quote from: Sneakyticks

Quote from: 2Vermont

It is my understanding that Cantarella is a Novus Ordo Feeneyite.

Go figure.

What?! :shocked:

All this time I thought she was at least a traditionalist.

 

I'm gathering this from other posts she has made here and elsewhere.  I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Others have questioned the obvious contradiction in this as well.

Sounds right.  She's free to correct the impression she's given, of course-- but she won't, I'm sure.

Novus Ordo Feeneyites are a strange bunch.  

So in the first place, as Fr. Hunter puts it, "there are certain matters of fact concerning which the Church can judge with infallible certainty. These are called by many writers dogmatic facts ... if the Bishops agree in recognizing a certain man as Pope, they are certainly right".

But beside this, when we come to the allegation of a 55+year ongoing interregnum, it is de fide from Vatican I, as all theologians teach, that there will always be bishops in the Church who are pastors and teachers, sent just as the Apostles were sent. This means bishops in office, with a canonical mission from the Pope. But if Pius XII was the last Pope, then this isn't true, because there are only 13 bishops still alive (as of last year) who were appointed by Pope Pius XII, and all of them are Emeritus. Where, then, is the teaching Church? An indefinitely extended interregnum will inevitably lead to problems of this sort.

The correct understanding of the interrelation between the Petrine succession and the Apostolic succession precludes such a theory. It is de fide that Peter will have perpetual successors in the primacy, and the consequence of an indefinitely extended interregnum would be that the Catholic Church would cease to be Apostolic - when all bishops appointed by the last Pope die. Therefore, the dogma pre-empts the possibility that an interregnum can be extended beyond that point. This, then, is a second and independent reason that sedevacantism is not the correct explanation of the crisis in the Church. Both come down to the question of the hierarchy, which Catholic dogma informs us will always exist.

In order to be able to distinguish with certainty the true Church of Christ from all false claimants, it is sufficient to establish the Apostolic Succession with regard to the primacy of Peter. For, since the primacy is the crown of the Apostolate, the Church which possesses the primacy must needs be Apostolic ... Hence that Church, and that Church only, which can trace its rulers to the first primate, namely, St. Peter, is in fact and by right Apostolic in every sense.