Me too - but even at that time I felt that I was choosing between a 💩 sandwich and a 💩 buffet - still 💩 either way.
After that, I said, "never again will I compromise like that when voting."
At the last election, it was often YOUR arguments here that helped me to see why that instinct of mine was sound.
So, I thank you Sir.
Yeah, same. I didn't vote Agent Orange enthusiastically, even the first time around ... but felt he was acceptable. I didn't feel like I was "compromising", since I opposed lesser evil back then. While obviously Trump is no Catholic, and is even a moral degenerate, at the time his stated positions were all consistent with natural law, virtue, goodness, and honesty ... but then realized about a week or two in that I had been duped. At that point I applied that "old saying in Tennessee ... fool me, can't get fooled again". I never for a second bought the old "5-D chess" and "keep your enemies closer" nonsense, realizing that Trump wasn't of the intellectual caliber to be that intelligent. I didn't buy into the Q nonsene for even a second, realizing it for what it was immediately.
But, even back in 2016, I saw the obvious error of the old "lesser evil" argument ... and I think I was arguing against it here even in 2012. It's just blatantly NOT CATHOLIC. It's the equivalent of saying that you can do evil in order to prevent greater evil, and that (good) end (of preventing greater evil) justifies the (evil) means.
I even tried to lead people who wished to justify a vote for Trump, since I remained open being able to justify it morally ... by trying to reframe the problem in actual Catholic terms, i.e. as "double effect" type of scenario. You're doing a good thing (voting against Biden), with the unintended evil effect (having Trump get into office with some of his evil policies), and then trying to apply double effect based on the usual principles. Problem, however, is that it fails double effect because the good effect cannot be caused by the evil effect ... which basically renders this a pseudo-double-effect, where it's really an end justifies the means in disguises. HOW am I keeping Biden out of office? By means of putting Trump into office. But I was shouted down, so I'm glad that it may have helped others.
Some of them were on here trolling for months about how we were even obligated to vote for Trump. Thankfully, Bishop Sanborn agreed with that much, where he said you're not obligated to vote for this lesser evil (though I disagree with him that we are even permitted to), and he stated bluntly that Trumps is "Pro Abortion".
Then when Trump got elected in 2024, there people here celebrating and reveling in the victory. So, is that an appropriate attitude to have when you just admitted to doing evil, putting evil into office? If that were the case, and the argument not just used disingenuously, then you would vote for him with a heavy heart, just thinking that it's the best you could hope for, etc. ... even if you decide you're allowed to vote for him. But to celebrate his victory? And, no, it wasn't just a celebration of Kamala's losing. That's actually another principle of double effect, that you cannot want the evil out come, but merely tolerate it, and do it with great regret. If a woman has a baby removed in an ectopic pregnancy, or the husband agrees, even if it's perfectly permissible, but if you're "secretly" happy that it worked out that way since you really didn't want the burden of having another child at this time ... then you commit a grave sin by desiring and willing the evil end.
What gets me in 2024, though, is that there's no excuse for being ignorant, where Trump had been exposed during his first term, and then afterwards, where we had 8 years to figure out who this guy really is. ALSO ... in 2024 they actually injected immoral things into the Republican Platform, pro IVF, removed anti-abortion and anti-sodomy language, etc. So despite having much more information about the true character and nature of Trump, and his role in the Kayfabe, and then finding elements of the platform itself that contradict natural law ... people STILL voted for the guy.
I never thougth I would live to see the day that the majority of TRADITIONAL Catholics would not only vote for a pro-abortion, pro-sodomite, pro-genocide, Jєωιѕн puppet of a candidate, but even enthusiastically support him and denounce those who were negative toward all that evil. At this point, I feel that it's just a matter of time before God severely punishes us as a nation, for at the very least putting a guy into office who made no secret about how he would support and fund the genocide in Gaza, leaving the blood of innocents on the hands of those who "pulled the lever" for Trump ... including many Trads. If people knew nothing else, Trump and Vance were open about their support for genocide, encouraging Israel to "finish the job". So they knowingly voted for genocide, and abortion, and IVF. How sad, how shameful, how incredibly tragic.
Topic: On Eric, on Michael, on Kennedy Hall! On Kwas, on Flanders, on Taylor Marshall! (Read 5357 times)