Author Topic: On Calling Out Our Bishops  (Read 1166 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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On Calling Out Our Bishops
« on: March 31, 2010, 06:01:39 PM »
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  • Offline stevusmagnus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 06:04:58 PM »
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  • Offline Caminus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 12:28:36 AM »
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  • I think one of the single most compelling non-doctrinal proofs of a very deep and dark intellectual and spiritual perversion is the treatment of traditional catholics versus the treatment given to those who practice all sorts of false religions.  The casual N.O. attendee will look with suspicion or even scorn at the traditional Catholic whereas they reserve nothing but gushing praise and admiration for the Buddhist who "prays" for world peace for example.  The traditional Catholic is condescendingly pitied while the Muslim is thought to be a "man of God."  I have even heard of "catholic" schools hiring non-catholics while firing traditional catholics.

    Additionally, I would say that it is precisely this formal "worldliness" that has totally darkened and extinguished the Gifts of the Holy Ghost in the Bishops' minds.  It is this rapproachment with the world that strangles the life out of the Church like no other force ever seen since it has the same effects of heresy and schism, but lacks propositional identity.  If one is not careful, the mere tolerance of this world-naturalism, coupled with a sentimentality that degenerates even further, or through regular association, one will almost certainly become infected as well.  This is no mere common worldiness, this is a kind of spirit that changes "St. John's Catholic Church" into "St. John's Catholic Church and Community Center" thereby reorienting religion itself without ever affirming even one heretical proposition.      

    Offline Caminus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 12:37:48 AM »
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  • I've often thought of writing a letter of warning to the local bishop, but since he's been infected by that poisonous worldly spirit that so blinds the mind it would be a futile act.  Since he was just recently installed here, he did a local news interview.  It was nothing but smiles and glee.  During the interview he stated that the diocese was in "great shape."  This was a display of a profound, impenetrable blindness to true spiritual good.  I would liken this blindness to that which befell the Jews at the first coming of Jesus Christ.  One cannot even begin to comprehend the irrationality of such blindness.  If I were to write a letter to such a man, it would simply be unintelligible.    

    Offline Caminus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 12:41:21 AM »
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  • I should also add that anyone of us could just as easily be blinded like this as well.  If we are not faithful to God Himself we too will lose our way.  The spirit of the world is one of the greatest enemies of faith.  


    Offline Raoul76

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 01:20:31 AM »
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  • Caminus said:
    Quote
    "... This is a kind of spirit that changes "St. John's Catholic Church" into "St. John's Catholic Church and Community Center" thereby reorienting religion itself without ever affirming even one heretical proposition.


    What you're describing is actually the Church under Benedict XV-Pius XI-Pius XII, assuming NFP is not a heresy.  That is when a sort of "socialistic" Catholicism began to take root, with a distinct anti-reactionary, pro-democratic tenor.  In some places, namely America, the Church was already even ecumenical ( but it has almost always been that way here, as the American Church was the precursor to Vatican II ).  

    Vatican II expanded on that and taught heresies: that other religions are the means of salvation, that the Church only subsists in the Catholic Church, that humans have the natural right to religious freedom.  More heresies were taught later.
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline Ladislaus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 05:12:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    I think one of the single most compelling non-doctrinal proofs of a very deep and dark intellectual and spiritual perversion is the treatment of traditional catholics versus the treatment given to those who practice all sorts of false religions.


    Liberty for all except for the enemies of liberty.

    I posted a list of neo-Catholic paradoxes some time ago:

    You're schismatic if you think it's wrong to join in prayer with schismatics.

    I've run into maybe two or three "sincere" religious libertarians during my entire life, those who felt it was OK to be a Traditional Catholic based on the principles of religious liberty.  But the rest are all hypocrites.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #7 on: April 01, 2010, 05:22:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Vatican II expanded on that and taught heresies: that other religions are the means of salvation, that the Church only subsists in the Catholic Church, that humans have the natural right to religious freedom.  More heresies were taught later.


    Vatican II was a lot more subtle on the first point; it said that elements of the (Catholic) Church exist in other religions, elements that can be salvific.  So, for instance, it's actually true that false religions can have valid baptism, which can be salvific (e.g., in the case of a child of Protestants who's baptized and dies before reaching the age of reason).  According to V2, these "elements" properly belong to the Church.  That "elements" terminology sounds very gnostic and was lifted from the writings of Yves Congar.

    As for the subsistence ecclesiology and religious liberty, those are the natural consequences of EENS-denial.  EENS-denial is THE FUNDAMENTAL V2 heresy--something to which Traditional Catholics have become completely "blinded".



    Offline Ladislaus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 05:23:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    I should also add that anyone of us could just as easily be blinded like this as well.


    Tu dixisti -- (cf. EENS).

    Offline Caminus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 09:22:44 AM »
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  •  :rolleyes:

    Offline Caminus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 10:12:09 AM »
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  • That's pretty bold of you, even using the sacred words of our Lord Jesus Christ.  I wonder why then you fear to address my complaints and objections to your opinions?  You and Mike wish to link this crisis to two separate, perfectly catholic doctrines, for some reason you've fixated on this alleged causal relation, a relation that exists only in your minds.  I would strongly suggest you reflect further on true causes of this crisis that don't involve impugning centuries of dogmatic and moral teaching.  


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #11 on: April 02, 2010, 10:13:21 AM »
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  • Caminus,

    You are right on as usual. It is the frog in pot analogy. It's so overused because it is true. Things that are accepted today in NO Churches would have horrified these SAME people 50 years ago. Their Catholic sensibility was weakened bit by bit until female dancers carrying incense at the Mahony fest is either accepted or at the least disliked but accepted. This process of erosion only goes in one direction. It is sad.

    I've seen older Catholics who grew up Pre-VCII and who are socially and morally conservative slowly accept ridiculous multiculturalism such as members of some Indian tribe leading the way of the cross with the lead Indian ( sporting pony tail) putting his twist on the way of the cross. Their reaction? Well, I don't have anything wrong with Indians do you? I suppose it is ok if they say it.

    They have been trained by fear to not question anything if a minority group is involved. It has been treated as a sacrilege and equated to burning crosses in our culture for 40 years and counting. Thus these scoundrels introduce all sorts of ridiculous novelty preying on the good nature and charity of Catholics to give them cover.

    Today's Catholic has lost a critical thinking. WHY exactly are Indian tribes being asked to say the way of the cross? Why not the priest? Why not the traditional readings? Why do they need to be altered to reflect the "experiences" of different cultures?

    These liberals are demonic in their subtle brainwash. After all, they will exclaim, how dare you question these oppressed peoples? You are a racist and un-Catholic. All the while they damn well know that the underhanded goal of it all is to reinforce white guilt, push the idea of novelty as progressive and good, imply the traditional way of the cross is flawed and intolerant, and inject the idea that race has a place everywhere and we should see through a racial prism.

    And this isn't even getting to the horrendous Masses, group penance services, lib conferences, etc.

    Offline Caraffa

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 10:50:55 AM »
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  • Quote
    Today's Catholic has lost a critical thinking. WHY exactly are Indian tribes being asked to say the way of the cross? Why not the priest? Why not the traditional readings? Why do they need to be altered to reflect the "experiences" of different cultures?


    Indeed, it is a loss of spiritual discernment, the ability, based upon scripture and tradition to discern right from wrong, truth from error.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #13 on: April 02, 2010, 12:01:59 PM »
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  • Getting back to the original article, it is much needed in our day and age.

    The most critical flaw in the Pre-VCII Church was the near idolization of the Pope and clergy. At the time it seemed benign and was even mistaken for merely a strong reverential respect and loyalty that was admirable. The error was diguised because the Popes and a vast majority of the clergy of the time were orthodox and at times heroic.

    Then came the liberal/ modernist infestation of the clergy. This misguided idolization of them was then used against the faithful to SILENCE them as all sorts of error and sacrilege took place.

    So today we have Bishop and Cardinal and Priest wolves in sheeps' clothing and we have a lot of Neo-Caths quietly and privately disapproving, but scrupulously believing it would be a sin to call out the actions of these clergy for what they are. A perfect trick of the devil.

    We have priests and Bishops desecrating their offices yet the only sin is if a Catholic actually speaks out against them. It is then the lay Catholic who is supposedly "descrating" the office by pointing out the Emporer has no clothes!

    Obviously we are not talking about rash judgment of interior disposition as the article points out. But some would go so far as to ban any legitimate and just criticism of the most heinous sacrilege and poison because the purveyor of poison is wearing a collar.

    Silence in this case is not a sign of a healthy respect for the clergy but of cowardice and neglect of duty.

    In the military, do you honor the rank of a general if you keep silent as he abuses his authority? The proposition is ridiculous when used in any other context. These snakes use " respect for priests " in order to do their dirty work and silence us out of fear in the process. It really is dispicable. One wonders how concerned they are for the dignity of the priesthood as they daily work to destroy the very same priesthood by their actions.

    Offline Alexandria

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    On Calling Out Our Bishops
    « Reply #14 on: April 02, 2010, 12:24:21 PM »
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  • I don't recall the pope being idolized in the pre-VII days.  The average in the pew Catholic never read an encyclical.  We rarely saw a picture of him.  Nor did we idolize our priests and religious. We put them on a pedestal and held them to a high standard, and rightly so, but idolize them?  Like the CAF crowd does today?  No.

    The Church is in big trouble with this JPII generation.  They are a dangerous bunch.  They stick their heads in the sand.  Facts mean nothing to them.  The pope is the pope is the pope and no matter what he says, writes or does, is 100% orthodox because he is the pope!  And if you dare to criticize, you're less than catholic.   They are also strangely pharisaical - a real letter of the law group.  And the saddest and worst of it is their animosity for the pre-VII Church and Faith.  Not all, but too many.

     

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