Author Topic: On "ripping apart" traditional priests (Read 3382 times)

ColdFusion · « **on:** January 26, 2011, 09:49:25 PM »

Quote from: Bazz

I don't think many who rip apart these traditional priests and bishops can promise those things. They NEED those to function, because they have rancor, agenda, and not the truth.
.

Does anyone know what a proper course of action for the faithful would be when we observe behavior in our clergy that is at best, inappropriate and at worst, indicative of mental illness? Remember we are dealing with priests/bishops who

1. Forgot their vow of poverty and buy/sell real estate out from under the people who paid for it;
2. Believe the vow of chastity is violated only if someone can "prove it"; and
3. Are incapable of obedience to anyone.

I don't want to rip anybody apart, and certainly not a priest. If Benedict is not a true pope because a pope cannot be a heretic, what are we to think of a priest who makes himself his own pope?

If you believe we should be quiet about it and mind our own business, then I assume it would follow that you believe that the victim of any crime by a priest shoudl remain silent, simply because he is a priest.

Following that, if you believe that we must turn a blind eye to anything unseemly done by our clergy, then shouldn't you be back at your local Novus Ordo parish. After all, you are not allowed to look where there is scandal.

I am not posting this to start an argument (Bazz has me on ignore and wouldn't provide any insight anyway); I just figure there must be more to the reasoning than "we must be quiet becaue they are priests."

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2011, 09:47:01 AM »

If you want to see the logical conclusion of such an attitude, look at the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. For thousands of years, the rabbis have been working their sheep over -- mentally, physically, sɛҳuąƖly, spiritually, you name it. To speak of the rabbis as being wrong is a crime worthy of death. IMO, the same grotesque spirit came to infect the Church, facilitating V2, and more or less immediately followed the resistance into what has become Traddieland.

ColdFusion · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:22:37 AM »

That makes pefect sense, and would no doubt include some type of implied (or maybe even explicit) provision that "all who do not worship here are beasts," that we continue to see.

I heard a story about Padre Pio throwing a woman out of a confessional because of the way she permitted her daughters to dress. His zeal and anger was provoked by the sin. Hopefully she came to accept the chastisement, and no doubt she complained! Imagine what his legacy would be if after the incident, he circulated notes and gossip among parishoners in a junior-highish attempt to shame her in to never returning.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2011, 07:06:38 PM »

Well, the mental illness aspect is an impediment to the priesthood. The fact that there are only 17 exorcists in the US means that there are going to be lots of people with mental illness. The fact that many prescriptions for physical ailments cause mental illness side-effects is going to make things dicey.

Priest X cannot continue behaving in a manner grossly inappropriate to the holy priesthood without a solid group of enablers. The enablers can range from people who share the same spirit of X____, to well-meaning, naive people who just want to raise their children in an orthodox Catholic environment.

Bullies will need a team to lie for them, to keep the intimidation, exclusion,and punishment flowing.

And the possibility exists that a good priest could be manipulated, his parish warped and souls lost by just one trusted associate, if that one is a socialised psychopath.

It's really complicated. The priests who are incapable of obedience to anyone attract all manner of people with mental health issues which are easy to overlook in an emotionally-charged religious movement.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2011, 09:50:49 AM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

The fact that there are only 17 exorcists in the US means that there are going to be lots of people with mental illness.

Why? Exorcists try to exorcise demons, they do not treat mental illnesses.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2011, 09:52:26 AM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

The priests who are incapable of obedience..

None are incapable of obedience.

Who do you think they should submit to?

SJB · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2011, 10:42:28 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Elizabeth

The priests who are incapable of obedience..

None are incapable of obedience.

Who do you think they should submit to?

Everyone needs to be accountable to someone or some organization. They are in a unique position, a difficult one no doubt. Yet they have set things up so there are no checks on their behavior.

Is the "true position" more important than a general morality?

Elizabeth · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2011, 02:40:44 PM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Elizabeth

The fact that there are only 17 exorcists in the US means that there are going to be lots of people with mental illness.

Why? Exorcists try to exorcise demons, they do not treat mental illnesses.

A number of good sources cite cases in which entire mental wards are cleared out by Exorcism. The various levels of demonic activity mimic insanity. Aslo both states of torment may be present simultaniously.

The authority of the Church casts out demons. Fr. Gabriel Amorth insists that only an exorcism can determine whether possession exists.

It is well worth listening to Fr. Chad Ripperger, who is a Psychologist and Exorcist for his views on modern Psychology.

In my opinion a good part of what is called mental illness is demonic. (Actually the most part of mental illness is now political in nature; the very concept of evil having been erased from the Universities long ago.)

But of course there is still insanity. I am not at all certain how the Church defines insanity but would be glad to learn.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:14:28 PM »

LOL! On second thought is it wise for RomanCatholic and I to get into a mental hygiene discussion? :furtive:

ColdFusion · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Elizabeth

The fact that there are only 17 exorcists in the US means that there are going to be lots of people with mental illness.

Why? Exorcists try to exorcise demons, they do not treat mental illnesses.

Surely you don't think, for obviou$ rea$on$, that a mental-health professional will ever declare, "Maybe before treating this schizophrenic person with medication, he should see a priest."

ColdFusion · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:38:14 PM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Elizabeth

The priests who are incapable of obedience..

None are incapable of obedience.

Who do you think they should submit to?

As they keep pointing out, they are obligated to obey their spiritual fathers. Remember Fr. C going on about Fr. Ramolla's obligation to obey? He went so far as to quote from his contract. In his world, rules are for other people, not the "special" ones like himself. (I am also convinced of his specialness; however, I believe it is of the short-bus variety).

Nonetheless, it is less of an issue of whom they should be obeying, as it is that have a history of not obeying (yet expecting blind obedience to themselves).

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2011, 07:13:29 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

LOL! On second thought is it wise for RomanCatholic and I to get into a mental hygiene discussion? :furtive:

I think it would be an unwise waste of time to try discussing that with you. So don't worry, it won't happen..

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2011, 07:16:15 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Elizabeth

The priests who are incapable of obedience..

None are incapable of obedience.

Who do you think they should submit to?

Everyone needs to be accountable to someone or some organization. They are in a unique position, a difficult one no doubt. Yet they have set things up so there are no checks on their behavior.

Is the "true position" more important than a general morality?

I don't know what you mean by "true position" (who are you quoting?) let alone do I understand your question.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2011, 07:19:35 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Elizabeth

The priests who are incapable of obedience..

None are incapable of obedience.

Who do you think they should submit to?

Everyone needs to be accountable to someone or some organization. They are in a unique position, a difficult one no doubt. Yet they have set things up so there are no checks on their behavior.

Is the "true position" more important than a general morality?

Do you know of any sedevacantist bishops who are accountable to anyone? Are the SSPX bishops accountable to anyone?

You say everyone needs to be accountable to someone or some organization.

Who, or which organisation should they submit to?

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2011, 07:21:14 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Elizabeth

The fact that there are only 17 exorcists in the US means that there are going to be lots of people with mental illness.

Why? Exorcists try to exorcise demons, they do not treat mental illnesses.

A number of good sources cite cases in which entire mental wards are cleared out by Exorcism. The various levels of demonic activity mimic insanity. Aslo both states of torment may be present simultaniously.

The authority of the Church casts out demons. Fr. Gabriel Amorth insists that only an exorcism can determine whether possession exists.

It is well worth listening to Fr. Chad Ripperger, who is a Psychologist and Exorcist for his views on modern Psychology.

In my opinion a good part of what is called mental illness is demonic. (Actually the most part of mental illness is now political in nature; the very concept of evil having been erased from the Universities long ago.)

But of course there is still insanity. I am not at all certain how the Church defines insanity but would be glad to learn.

Ah, thanks now I understand what you meant.