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Author Topic: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon  (Read 58193 times)

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Offline dymphnaw

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Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
« Reply #150 on: December 29, 2021, 03:03:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: dymphnaw on December 28, 2021, 11:11:04 AM
    Who has the title to the property?
    It looks like the school owns the property and the pastor is just a hired employee so the BOD has the legal right to cast Fr. Starbuck aside. Any priest who goes to an independent chapel needs to get his status written down and notarized at the very least. The independent chapel route is very risky and runs the risk of turning into a cult or Protestantism.

     It looks like we may lose access to the traditional Mass in my diocese and my family has been talking about what to do next. We may have to move. I don't know what will happen but I know my husband will refuse any independent chapels because of this sad story. 
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    Offline SupportFrStarbuck

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #151 on: December 30, 2021, 02:32:20 PM »
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    • The following reasonable questions which were raised by Fr. Starbuck is THE reason that he has been (after 15 years of service to OLHC) persecuted and ordered not to come back on the property of OLHC under the threat of being arrested for trespassing!

    These questions should be considered by all who read this thread.  We should ask ourselves "Why isn't it reasonable and just that Fr. Starbuck raised these questions to ensure that any priest's history and background be made public before allowing his presence at OLHC?" Shouldn't REFUSING to divulge ANY INFORMATION of ones history as a priest raise "red flags" for the faithful? Why are there NO SEARCH RESULTS OF ANY KIND ON GOOGLE, THE INTERNET OR ANY BACKGROUND CHECKING SITE  for the name "Fr. Michael Weist?"

    Excerpts from Fr. Starbuck's Original Sermon December 19, 2021 at 7:30 a.m. Mass:

    "After Fr. Perez’s death, a lay board rose up asserting its legal authority to appoint the next “pastor” of this parish.  THIS IS LUTHERANISM PURE AND SIMPLE...Laypeople could never have the ecclesial power or jurisdiction to appoint or create a pastor. That they may have a legal right [but] IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HAVING A DIVINE RIGHT." 

    "My continuous requests for the vetting of priests serving in this parish have not & [were] not met! We have had a couple of “priests” coming through here whose ordination I found questionable...  Five years ago, I proposed to Fr. Perez the following specific requirements of any priest serving in this parish. And they [were] the following:

    1. A criminal background check with ID, performed by a reputable third party, meeting state compliancy.

    Also, the background check that I am requesting is not just a clearance check. It must consist of a positive trace of the person’s history.

    2. References.

    3. A chronological work history.

    4. Proof of ordination. And I want to know the ordaining bishop, seminary, and formational contacts."

    Therefore, "I am asking that the vetting of "Fr." Michael Wiest be completed, and that the results of that be made public.  The problem is THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC LIFE OF ANY "FR." MICHAEL WIEST! IN SHORT, THERE IS NO SUCH  PERSON!
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #152 on: December 30, 2021, 02:42:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: SupportFrStarbuck on December 30, 2021, 02:32:20 PM
    The following reasonable questions which were raised by Fr. Starbuck is THE reason that he has been (after 15 years of service to OLHC) persecuted and ordered not to come back on the property of OLHC under the threat of being arrested for trespassing!

    These questions should be considered by all who read this thread.  We should ask ourselves "Why isn't it reasonable and just that Fr. Starbuck raised these questions to ensure that any priest's history and background be made public before allowing his presence at OLHC?" Shouldn't REFUSING to divulge ANY INFORMATION of ones history as a priest raise "red flags" for the faithful? Why are there NO SEARCH RESULTS OF ANY KIND ON GOOGLE, THE INTERNET OR ANY BACKGROUND CHECKING SITE  for the name "Fr. Michael Weist?"

    Excerpts from Fr. Starbuck's Original Sermon December 19, 2021 at 7:30 a.m. Mass:

    "After Fr. Perez’s death, a lay board rose up asserting its legal authority to appoint the next “pastor” of this parish.  THIS IS LUTHERANISM PURE AND SIMPLE...Laypeople could never have the ecclesial power or jurisdiction to appoint or create a pastor. That they may have a legal right [but] IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HAVING A DIVINE RIGHT." 

    "My continuous requests for the vetting of priests serving in this parish have not & [were] not met! We have had a couple of “priests” coming through here whose ordination I found questionable...  Five years ago, I proposed to Fr. Perez the following specific requirements of any priest serving in this parish. And they [were] the following:

    1. A criminal background check with ID, performed by a reputable third party, meeting state compliancy.

    Also, the background check that I am requesting is not just a clearance check. It must consist of a positive trace of the person’s history.

    2. References.

    3. A chronological work history.

    4. Proof of ordination. And I want to know the ordaining bishop, seminary, and formational contacts."

    Therefore, "I am asking that the vetting of "Fr." Michael Wiest be completed, and that the results of that be made public.  The problem is THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC LIFE OF ANY "FR." MICHAEL WIEST! IN SHORT, THERE IS NO SUCH  PERSON!
    Well said. Since it's evident that no such person at "Fr." Michael Wiest has ever existed, this raises the question. Who is he?

    Scroll down on this 2006 SSPX publication and you will see photos of someone who looks very much like the mysterious Michael Wiest. (The photo is older than the 2006 article, so he may look younger.)

    http://www.virgo-maria.org/articles_HTML/2009/001_2009/VM-2009-01-23/VM-2009-01-23-A-00-Mgr_Williamson_Roberts.html

    The person in the photo is Bishop Terence Fulham, who was a SSPX priest who went rogue. Docuмents exist that he married and had children. Supposedly he died around the time "Fr." Michael Wiest appeared. Hmmm.
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    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #153 on: December 30, 2021, 04:00:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Zeusantony on December 29, 2021, 09:04:51 AM
    It seems a pity that this site gets occasionally overtaken by people who are newcomers full of ill  informed verbosity and pointless repetition. There seems to be a new Xavier in the making.
    It seems a pity that you cannot even read your own status there "Newbie," as per your Avatar. Pot meet kettle. 

    :laugh1:

    Hi Nishant! You back?

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    Offline SupportFrStarbuck

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #154 on: December 30, 2021, 04:12:58 PM »
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    • Correction:

    The problem is THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC LIFE OF ANY "FR." MICHAEL WIEST! IN SHORT, THERE IS NO SUCH  PUBLIC PERSON!
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    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #155 on: December 30, 2021, 04:52:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: SupportFrStarbuck on December 30, 2021, 02:32:20 PM
    The following reasonable questions which were raised by Fr. Starbuck is THE reason that he has been (after 15 years of service to OLHC) persecuted and ordered not to come back on the property of OLHC under the threat of being arrested for trespassing!

    These questions should be considered by all who read this thread.  We should ask ourselves "Why isn't it reasonable and just that Fr. Starbuck raised these questions to ensure that any priest's history and background be made public before allowing his presence at OLHC?" Shouldn't REFUSING to divulge ANY INFORMATION of ones history as a priest raise "red flags" for the faithful? Why are there NO SEARCH RESULTS OF ANY KIND ON GOOGLE, THE INTERNET OR ANY BACKGROUND CHECKING SITE  for the name "Fr. Michael Weist?"

    Excerpts from Fr. Starbuck's Original Sermon December 19, 2021 at 7:30 a.m. Mass:

    "After Fr. Perez’s death, a lay board rose up asserting its legal authority to appoint the next “pastor” of this parish.  THIS IS LUTHERANISM PURE AND SIMPLE...Laypeople could never have the ecclesial power or jurisdiction to appoint or create a pastor. That they may have a legal right [but] IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HAVING A DIVINE RIGHT." 

    "My continuous requests for the vetting of priests serving in this parish have not & [were] not met! We have had a couple of “priests” coming through here whose ordination I found questionable...  Five years ago, I proposed to Fr. Perez the following specific requirements of any priest serving in this parish. And they [were] the following:

    1. A criminal background check with ID, performed by a reputable third party, meeting state compliancy.

    Also, the background check that I am requesting is not just a clearance check. It must consist of a positive trace of the person’s history.

    2. References.

    3. A chronological work history.

    4. Proof of ordination. And I want to know the ordaining bishop, seminary, and formational contacts."

    Therefore, "I am asking that the vetting of "Fr." Michael Wiest be completed, and that the results of that be made public.  The problem is THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC LIFE OF ANY "FR." MICHAEL WIEST! IN SHORT, THERE IS NO SUCH  PERSON!
    1. Hey, if you actually go back and read all of my posts, you will see very clearly what side I am on. It's all there. But for those who think it is wrong to keep bashing Priests, (alive or dead), well, keep going.

    2. Unless YOU, PERSONALLY know FACTS about x person being who they say they are, then you and all the others attending that chapel are only speculating, which is dangerous turf to stand on. 

    I also even mentioned going to the Police Station in one post to a poster. Why would I give such advice? Hint, because there's obviously some funny stuff going on and only the police can help you with who is or is not a certain person. That's it.

    3. The original poster, Cera, clearly has a deep love for the Mass and the Sacraments, and is obviously in great distress about a number of things. She has now since indicated a means to attend a certain Priest's Mass, and it is clear by her post that intelligent people can figure out how to get there. 

    Being a woman myself, I can understand how emotions can sometimes get raw, and it can be missed that a person is actually extending a hand and is trying to calm the waters. She perhaps took offense, and that is fine. I am new here, but that doesn't stop a person in good faith from trying to help another lady.

    I also said that I would stop helping her, and yet here I am again, on her thread. WHY? Because the greater virtue of Justice applies here, and it's not up to you or I to dish it out, if you will. See point 4 below.

    4. There is a difference between ordinary respect due persons, and the reverence due to Priests. IF there is any question about who is, or is not a Priest, it is generally not up to the laity to determine that. You might have a natural inclination to want to know everything at once, but it probably will not happen that way. (Think of crime scene investigation as the first example that comes to mind).

    If you do not understand which authority that you need to be addressing for your particular concerns (police, lawyer, SSPV, SSPX, Bishop Williamson, etc.), then you are making things worse by jumping to conclusions, naming names in public and so on. You are neither helping any Priest, your "cause" or quest for information, etc.

    The one Priest is dead, and he is not coming back. Let him to God's mercy and pray for him!!! If he was never a Priest? You will now never know until perhaps the Last Judgment. BUT HERE IS THE WARNING--It is much better you consider that he was a Priest, and in good faith reverence him, than the reverse. That is why I posted in regards to Saint Catherine.

    5. Whomever is publicly threatening a person or Priest in the confessional, or making him feel afraid, etc. is a person to avoid, period. But it is not up to you or I, or the next guy to do anything else about it-that is up to Father Starbuck and his own good judgment. And his alone! It seems like he is wise, or else he would not have said what he did in the sermon you posted above.

    6. Think of me what you will, and that goes for all others here. I have done nothing wrong except temporarily distract on a thread to get people to STOP AND THINK about the consequences of their actions and such in a delicate matter and potential legal minefield that is going on at your chapel. That's all I am guilty of, and nothing more.

    7. Speculating about why the Priest died is not in the pay grade of people unless they are legally investigating his cause of death. etc. Just sayin.' But if you think it is easy being a Priest? Ask any of them what it is like. I have had more than one say the worst part of being a Priest is the parishioners. Makes perfect sense to me. I am guessing there are too many people running around trying to tell Priests what to do instead of being UNDER them.

    8. Independent chapels are not the first place I would personally consider going to Mass for many reasons, and sadly, this chapel just confirms things. If it falls apart, then it is because God wills it. If it stands, then it will get straightened out in His good time, not ours. But if there were people that were okay with the one Priest before he died and now are suddenly turned on him without full facts? That is very dangerous waters to be wading in. If there is some sort of weird imposter Priest or something? See above for what to do.

    9. For all the people that attended the chapel and spent time slinging mud and accusations and stuff on this thread? You would have probably been better off saying a Rosary for God's help, and praying for help, etc. Cera even posted something about praying a Rosary Novena, etc. Y'all need to pray more for that place, and keep hush, lest you add to the mud and evil going on there. 

    10. If you end up with a good Priest, it is not because you probably deserve it, but God in His mercy has sent you one. But if you end up with a bad Priest? Then yes, God has sent you one because you do. 

    So if someone is more inclined to be a Priest groupie, if you will, or have "favourites?" Then they will be more inclined to his faults and human failings and act accordingly. So if you worship a man, you will always be disappointed. If you worship God, you will never be.--Anne.

    :-) Prayers.
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    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #156 on: December 30, 2021, 05:05:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: SupportFrStarbuck on December 30, 2021, 04:12:58 PM
    Correction:

    The problem is THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC LIFE OF ANY "FR." MICHAEL WIEST! IN SHORT, THERE IS NO SUCH  PUBLIC PERSON!
    I don't know what happened to my post where I missed including it in there, but anyway, it's not rocket science to attend another parish or go to the police station yourself to run a background check, etc., if you have legitimate reasons for doing so, but if you don't, then you could find yourself in hot water is what I was trying to convey.

    My concern also would be because there is a school involved with minor kids. So if I went there or had kids there? I would be gone. I would pull them out and not think twice about it.

    If the older Priest is available, then he has probably been around a long time, and it would probably be fine to attend his Mass. If people are too inconvenienced by having to drive another 20 minutes or whatever on the freeway to attend another Mass? Then they maybe don't think that much of Mass to begin with. There are oodles of chapels all over CA. 

    CA is heavily populated and dense, and if a person wanted to do something weird or criminal, they might be able to get away with it for a little bit longer than X chapel in Cornfield, Iowa. Common sense to me, but anyway, all the best to you, Anne.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #157 on: December 30, 2021, 06:39:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on December 30, 2021, 02:42:11 PM
    The person in the photo is Bishop Terence Fulham, who was a SSPX priest who went rogue. Docuмents exist that he married and had children. Supposedly he died around the time "Fr." Michael Wiest appeared. Hmmm.
    The obituary for +Fulham:

    https://www.merrittfuneral.com/obituary/BishopTerence-Fulham
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #158 on: December 31, 2021, 12:38:09 PM »
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    • Take another look at the photo of "Bishop" Fulham and then look at one of the photos of Wiest on this site. Hmm.

    Faking your own death takes work — and lots of cash

    On paper, at least, Elizabeth Greenwood died while visiting the Philippines in 2013. Multiple witnesses reported seeing her rental car collide at high speed with another vehicle. Both drivers were seriously injured; doctors at a local hospital pronounced Greenwood dead on arrival.


    The docuмents have all the right official seals, watermarks and signatures, but they’re fake. There was no accident.

    Obtaining her own death certificate was the culmination of years of research for Greenwood, who – in addition to being alive and well – is the author of the new book “Playing Dead: A Journey Though the World of Death Fraud.” She doesn’t recommend you try faking your own death.

    Greenwood got her falsifying docuмents for free in the course of researching and writing her book. She says the mechanics of faking your own death range from just a few hundred dollars for a faux death certificate all the way up to $30,000 to hire a professional fixer to help erase your physical and digital trails. (That’s in addition to the cash you’d need to launch your new life.)

    CNBC talked to Greenwood about why money is a big motivation for faking your own death, as well as why it often trips up would-be fakers.


    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/30/faking-your-own-death-takes-work--and-lots-of-cash.html
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #159 on: December 31, 2021, 12:40:31 PM »
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #160 on: December 31, 2021, 12:41:35 PM »
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    • Scroll down on this 2006 SSPX publication and you will see photos of someone who looks very much like the mysterious Michael Wiest. (The photo is older than the 2006 article, so he may look younger.)

    http://www.virgo-maria.org/articles_HTML/2009/001_2009/VM-2009-01-23/VM-2009-01-23-A-00-Mgr_Williamson_Roberts.html

    The person in the photo is Bishop Terence Fulham, who was a SSPX priest who went rogue. Docuмents exist that he married and had children. Supposedly he died around the time "Fr." Michael Wiest appeared. Hmmm.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #161 on: December 31, 2021, 02:01:25 PM »
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    • Very sympathetic to the plight of OLHC members and their concerns about Michael Weist. Have followed this story closely and with interest. But I think the Terrance Fulham angle is outlandish and irresponsible, and I would recommend dropping it quickly so as not to give your opponents any leverage. 
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #162 on: December 31, 2021, 02:38:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on December 31, 2021, 02:01:25 PM
    Very sympathetic to the plight of OLHC members and their concerns about Michael Weist. Have followed this story closely and with interest. But I think the Terrance Fulham angle is outlandish and irresponsible, and I would recommend dropping it quickly so as not to give your opponents any leverage.
    I hear you and I think the point you raise is a good one. The problem is: 

    Although Michael Wiest as a layman did exist for a short period of time, there is absolutely no record of any Father Michael Wiest existing anywhere At all. Ever. Zero.

    That problem may be related to the problem that when Wiest requested to work with altar boys, he refused to comply with California state law that he submit his drivers' license and fingerprints.

    Father Perez instructed Father Starbuck to work with the school board so that Wiest would follow the law intended to protect children and show his drivers' license.

    Father Starbuck followed up and was met by vicious attacks from the school board for following through with Father Perez's request.

    Why does Wiest refuse to show his drivers' license?
    Why does the school board support his refusal to do so?

    Do you see the problem?
    Do you see an alternative explanation?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #163 on: December 31, 2021, 02:54:31 PM »
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    • Seems to me that if the board has asked Fr Starbuck to leave, and if the board supports a quasi-fake-priest-Weist, then this whole turmoil is a blessing in disguise.  Fr Starbuck should move on and start fresh.  In the last 50 years since Tradition started, he won't be the first priest this has happened to.  
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    Offline Thorn

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    Re: OLHC laypersons attempting to take over chapel CENSOR Fr. Starbuck's sermon
    « Reply #164 on: December 31, 2021, 04:59:05 PM »
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    • Besides Joel Iddings, who is on the School Board?  Are they the original members?  When did Joel come on board?
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